[Politics] The 2024 US Election - Trump v Harris

Zeberdi · Sunday at 1:36 PM

peterward said:
If you didnt realise just how deceitful and duplicitous Elon Musk is, with his social engineering and lies to get Trump elected, you may just now. (archive.ph link as orignal paywalled)

https://archive.ph/ZZt64

Musk spending a million a day to get voters to sign up to his pro-Trump petition. Those who sign the petition - which pledges to support free speech and gun rights - ‘will have to give their contact details, potentially allowing AmericaPAC to contact them about their vote’.

Elon Musk pledges to give away $1m per day to Pennsylvania voters

The winner will be chosen from those who sign a petition by the tech billionaire's Trump-supporting campaign group.

www.bbc.co.uk

As I mentioned above - swing voters (the target here) generally treat Musk with suspicion and distrust and he is possibly wasting a lot of money mainly preaching to the converted.

“A recent NBC News poll found that just 31% of independents view Musk positively. That said, the billionaire is fairly popular with Republican voters. The poll found 62% of GOP voters have positive feelings about Musk, though only 7% of Democrats said the same.”

Can Elon Musk sway the election?

Elon Musk, the world’s wealthiest person, has thrown his full weight behind former President Donald Trump’s presidential campaign.

www.gzeromedia.com

Crawley Dingo · Sunday at 5:11 PM

tedebear said:
But no, Trump advised drinking bleach, light bulbs and ivermectin, an anti parastic more commonly used in horses and cows.

None of that is true. Ivermectin has been used as an anti-malaria drug and had over 4 billion doses with 30 people experiencing side effects.

Crawley Dingo · Sunday at 5:12 PM

Triggaaar said:
While the demographics would impact the outcome, a lot of deaths were also due to Trump's ignorance and not enforcing lockdowns.

Not true, proofs?

rogersix · Sunday at 5:19 PM

Crawley Dingo said:
Not true, proofs?

That's not something you usually bother with?

Zeberdi · Sunday at 5:22 PM

Crawley Dingo said:
None of that is true. Ivermectin has been used as an anti-malaria drug and had over 4 billion doses with 30 people experiencing side effects.

I agree it is NOT true that Trump advocated Ivermectin - that drug was pushed by an pro-Trump anti-vaxer medical website but not Trump himself.

Trump did advocate Hydroxychloroquine (a commonly used anti-malaria drug) which was considered by the Chinese and British pharmaceutical companies in the early days as a possible off label treatment for Covid.

Just before Trump got into the Hydroxy narrative, I was requesting my pharmacist get extra supplies in as I was on daily hydroxychloroquine at the time (as an off label treatment for an autoimmune condition). I had read the Chinese research where they had had some success with Hydroxy and was concerned that there would be a shortage if it became the recommended drug for treatment. They duly ordered in extra supplies. As it turned out, other anti-viral treatments took precedence and Hydrochloroquine not advised (partly because it was not proven to be very effective and partly because it can cause cardiac and eyesight problems)

As for Ivermectin, Trump had nothing to do with that, it was other Conservatives (and Fox) that ran with it for a while.

Clamoring for ivermectin, some turn to a pro-Trump telemedicine website

Much as the anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine became an unproven remedy for Covid deniers, ivermectin has emerged in recent weeks as a new false cure.

www.nbcnews.com

As for the rest - Trump didn’t suggest “drinking bleach” but he did ask whether injecting bleech to kill the virus would work - he also asked about shining UV lighting onto the body - I remember the press conference where scientists were talking about how they had progressed with killing the virus in vitro - his words verbatim in the link below

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/23/trump-bleach-one-year-484399

Seagull58 · Sunday at 5:33 PM

Crawley Dingo said:
None of that is true. Ivermectin has been used as an anti-malaria drug and had over 4 billion doses with 30 people experiencing side effects.

Trump suggested injecting bleach or using a strong light inside the body might be effective against covid. He made those statements in press conferences with Fauci alongside looking somewhat discomfited. It's all on video if you look for it but I've saved you the bother

Crawley Dingo · Sunday at 5:36 PM

Zeberdi said:
I agree it is NOT true that Trump advocated Ivermectin - that drug was pushed by an pro-Trump anti-vaxer medical website but not Trump himself.

Trump did advocate Hydroxychloroquine (a commonly used anti-malaria drug) which was considered by the Chinese and British pharmaceutical companies in the early days as a possible off label treatment for Covid.

Just before Trump got into the Hydroxy narrative, I was requesting my pharmacist get extra supplies in as I was on daily hydroxychloroquine at the time (as an off label treatment for an autoimmune condition). I had read the Chinese research where they had had some success with Hydroxy and was concerned that there would be a shortage if it became the recommended drug for treatment. They duly ordered in extra supplies. As it turned out, other anti-viral treatments took precedence and Hydrochloroquine not advised (partly because it wasn’t very effective and partly because it can cause cardiac and eyesight problems)

As for Ivermectin, Trump had nothing to do with that, it was other Conservatives (and Fox) that ran with it for a while.

Clamoring for ivermectin, some turn to a pro-Trump telemedicine website

Much as the anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine became an unproven remedy for Covid deniers, ivermectin has emerged in recent weeks as a new false cure.

www.nbcnews.com

As for the rest - Trump didn’t suggest “drinking bleach” but he did ask whether injecting bleech to kill the virus would work - he also asked about shining UV lighting onto the body - I remember the press conference where scientists were talking about how they had progressed with killing the virus in vitro - his words verbatim in the link below

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/23/trump-bleach-one-year-484399

First couple of minutes....

This....

Crawley Dingo · Sunday at 5:42 PM

Seagull58 said:
Trump suggested injecting bleach or using a strong light inside the body might be effective against covid. He made those statements in press conferences with Fauci alongside looking somewhat discomfited. It's all on video if you look for it but I've saved you the bother

Maybe you should watch your own link, he doesn't suggest injecting bleach he said maybe use some kind of disinfectant, its quite clear he was speculating.

Eeyore · Sunday at 5:44 PM

Just one thing I don't understand here. What is the logic behind an election where the person with the most votes doesn't win ?

How can six or seven states determine a straight forward outcome in a different way ?

Bob! · Sunday at 5:48 PM

Eeyore said:
Just one thing I don't understand here. What is the logic behind an election where the person with the most votes doesn't win ?

How can six or seven states determine a straight forward outcome in a different way ?

It's rather like the UK where you win individual constituencies with the most votes in that constituency.

Ask @Harry Wilson's tackle he'll explain FPTP v PR.

Seagull58 · Sunday at 5:50 PM

Crawley Dingo said:
Maybe you should watch your own link, he doesn't suggest injecting bleach he said maybe use some kind of disinfectant, its quite clear he was speculating.

I have watched it several times. By all means swap "bleach" for "disinfectant". Is it any less mad now?
Do you know that the Hillside Strangler (actually 2 people) in Hollywood injected disinfectant into one of their victims to see what would happen? They didn't do it because they thought it might help her.

Machiavelli · Sunday at 5:51 PM

Eeyore said:
Just one thing I don't understand here. What is the logic behind an election where the person with the most votes doesn't win ?

How can six or seven states determine a straight forward outcome in a different way ?

What you don't understand is that in this case -- as in so many others -- tradition trumps logic.

raymondo · Sunday at 5:52 PM

Bob! said:
It's rather like the UK where you win individual constituencies with the most votes in that constituency.

Ask @Harry Wilson's tackle he'll explain FPTP v PR

Just that they're HUGE constituencies!

Crawley Dingo · Sunday at 5:53 PM

Eeyore said:
Just one thing I don't understand here. What is the logic behind an election where the person with the most votes doesn't win ?

How can six or seven states determine a straight forward outcome in a different way ?

If its a straight numbers game its easier to rig manipulating demographics.

Eeyore · Sunday at 6:03 PM

Crawley Dingo said:
If its a straight numbers game its easier to rig manipulating demographics.

I'm struggling to understand that. If it's a two horse race the one with the most votes wins. It should differ to FPTP because the same candidate is standing in every state. FPTP has a weak case in the UK. It seems rather nonsensical in the USA. If all are equal, every vote should be equal. A vote for a candidate in New York should be the same as one in LA and have the same amount of consequence.

Trump won in 2016 with less votes than Clinton. Therefore lost the nation's vote. I think it may have happened in other elections. Even with FPTP this has only happened once post war in the UK with our system.

As regards manipulating demographics, Musk's efforts as reported today would be pretty redundant.

Seagull58 · Sunday at 6:14 PM

Eeyore said:
I'm struggling to understand that. If it's a two horse race the one with the most votes wins. It should differ to FPTP because the same candidate is standing in every state. FPTP has a weak case in the UK. It seems rather nonsensical in the USA. If all are equal, every vote should be equal. A vote for a candidate in New York should be the same as one in LA and have the same amount of consequence.

Trump won in 2016 with less votes than Clinton. Therefore lost the nation's vote. I think it may have happened in other elections. Even with FPTP this has only happened once post war in the UK with our system.

As regards manipulating demographics, Musk's efforts as reported today would be pretty redundant.

The last Republican presidential candidate to win the popular vote was Bush in 2004.

Zeberdi · Sunday at 6:16 PM

Seagull58 said:
Trump suggested injecting bleach or using a strong light inside the body might be effective against covid. He made those statements in press conferences with Fauci alongside looking somewhat discomfited. It's all on video if you look for it but I've saved you the bother

See my post above - I already addressed this in the post above yours and posted a link of his verbatim comments!

Seagull58 · Sunday at 6:19 PM

Crawley Dingo said:
If its a straight numbers game its easier to rig manipulating demographics.

That's obviously nonsense. Under the electoral college system Trump only needs to rig the vote by a few tens of thousands of votes in 2 or 3 states to steal the election For example the 80,000 odd votes he asked Raffensburger to "find" in Georgia. Whereas he would have had to "find" over 7 million to steal the popular vote.

Zeberdi · Sunday at 6:20 PM

Crawley Dingo said:
First couple of minutes....

This....

I know.

There’s fake news on both sides.

It sort of becomes memes and well worn tropes after a while - then eventually it gets harder to tell the truth amongst all the noise.

I do have to say though, there’s more fake news coming from the right campaign than the left!

Seagull58 · Sunday at 6:20 PM

Zeberdi said:
See my post above - I already addressed this in the post above yours and posted a link of his verbatim comments!

I posted before reading your post.

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[Politics] The 2024 US Election - Trump v Harris

Who will win the 2024 Presidential Election?

President Joe Biden - Democrat

Donald Trump - Republican

Vice President, Kamala Harris - Democrat

Other Democratic candidate tbc

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