[Travel] Train disruption Tonight (Cup versus Liverpool)

AK74 · 2024-10-31T10:00:29+0000

The pre-game email (which landed in my inbox at lunchtime) made clear that travel to/from was going to be an issue last night:

Make sure you give yourself plenty of additional time to get to and from the Amex.

Please expect queue waiting times to be longer than usual. Where possible, please seek alternative travel arrangements. Additional parking has been arranged but it must be pre-booked.

Plus there were engineering works at Ore, as mentioned in the article which the email contained a link to.

I know this doesn't justify the scenes, but it shouldn't have come as a surprise.

el punal · 2024-10-31T10:03:47+0000

The red pepper kid said:
There are no extra trains because the club hasn't paid for it .................they should build it into future cup games mid week --if we play big clubs

I would question that point. The club presumably pay Southern or whoever for providing extra trains to cope with the demand that comes with having a 30,000 crowd every match day on an annual basis. For Saturday 3.00 fixtures the process is generally okay. As soon as a fixture date is changed to a Sunday or midweek evening game than carnage ensues. Unless someone corrects me the train company will already be aware in advance of any fixture changes. Surely, as transport providers, they have a duty to provide the service required. This problem of not having the appropriate number of trains available has been going on for years and frankly is unacceptable.

So, in my view, the club really need to protest to Southern on behalf of us fans about the appalling service that we have to continually put up with whenever we attend a match. SORT IT OUT!!

Easy 10 · 2024-10-31T10:03:54+0000

Arkwright said:
We did our normal postmatch and stayed for a couple of pints (no food left). The queue to Lewes was longer than I had ever seen in the Falmer years.
We weren't ever going to get on the next four scheduled trains so the five of us made an executive decision and walked to Lewes.
Pleasant evening for a nice walk.

Sounds like you made a good decision.

The fact that it was a pleasant evening weatherwise was very fortunate. There's understandably a lot of justified anger around following the latest SASTA shit show. Can you imagine the fallout if it had been HONKING down last night ? B&Q would be running out of pitchforks.

BNthree · 2024-10-31T10:07:38+0000

Green Cross Code Man said:
Once or twice (a long time ago) the police manually controlled the traffic flow. It was MUCH quicker. Another problem which is pretty much impossible to counteract, is that the sheer volume of pedestrians walking down from the ground overwhelms the exit through the bridge further delaying egress. This means frequently the queue for the cars going either way down the A27 is reduced and fewer cars leave the area as they are stuck in the jam before going through the Bridge itself. It's annoying but without a footbridge (not going to happen) that bottleneck will always occur.

Really there needs to be a big footbridge to cross the train tracks there so no pedestrians going through the tunnel. Obviously no one will want to pay for that so it’ll never happen.

el punal · 2024-10-31T10:08:42+0000

Man of Harveys said:
That is, quite simply, not the stadium that so many of us marched and campaigned for.

Those appalling travelling conditions reflect terribly badly on the priorities of the club’s current custodians. Sort it out.

That got me thinking on what would have happened if the Shoreham Cement Works had been made as the recommended stadium site. :ohmy:

AK74 · 2024-10-31T10:10:03+0000

el punal said:
That got me thinking on what would have happened if the Shoreham Cement Works had been made as the recommended stadium site.

The club would be bricking it each time there was travel disruption.

jackalbion · 2024-10-31T10:11:34+0000

el punal said:
This problem of not having the appropriate number of trains available has been going on for years and frankly is unacceptable.

Last night was a complete shambles, but post lockdown the lack of available rolling stock in the entire country is the problem. Nobody within this entire country seems interested in trying to solve it, its not just a matchday issue, but like I said no one is interested in improving infrastructure and rolling stock provision.

Bry Nylon · 2024-10-31T10:12:18+0000

el punal said:
That got me thinking on what would have happened if the Shoreham Cement Works had been made as the recommended stadium site.

We'd win more games on aggregate.

beorhthelm · 2024-10-31T10:14:09+0000

el punal said:
I would question that point. The club presumably pay Southern or whoever for providing extra trains to cope with the demand that comes with having a 30,000 crowd every match day on an annual basis. For Saturday 3.00 fixtures the process is generally okay. As soon as a fixture date is changed to a Sunday or midweek evening game than carnage ensues. Unless someone corrects me the train company will already be aware in advance of any fixture changes. Surely, as transport providers, they have a duty to provide the service required. This problem of not having the appropriate number of trains available has been going on for years and frankly is unacceptable.

So, in my view, the club really need to protest to Southern on behalf of us fans about the appalling service that we have to continually put up with whenever we attend a match. SORT IT OUT!!

there's the problem, there are no extra trains for midweek games. there's no spare trains so we get the regular service. saturday there are spare trains and they put on extra and longer services. unless the club pay several tens of millions for extra trains for 20 odd games a year this wont change - it's not on the railways to provide additional services.

more pragmatically, the club should be either hiring or buying bus and coaches to run shuttles Brighton and Lewes. that's the solution, not relying on rail that doesn't have the flexibility.

Terry Butcher Tribute Act · 2024-10-31T10:16:22+0000

AK74 said:
The pre-game email (which landed in my inbox at lunchtime) made clear that travel to/from was going to be an issue last night:

Make sure you give yourself plenty of additional time to get to and from the Amex.

Please expect queue waiting times to be longer than usual. Where possible, please seek alternative travel arrangements. Additional parking has been arranged but it must be pre-booked.

Plus there were engineering works at Ore, as mentioned in the article which the email contained a link to.

I know this doesn't justify the scenes, but it shouldn't have come as a surprise.

And there is part of the issue. An email went out at lunch time telling people to allow more time that same day.

Where do people get this 'more time' from if they finish work at 5 or 530, and have an onward connection afterwards that they can't risk for fear of missing a last train.

It just isn't an option for the majority of people at a midweek fixture to leave home at 3pm, or accept not getting home until 1 in the morning.

jackalbion · 2024-10-31T10:16:34+0000

beorhthelm said:
there's the problem, there are no extra trains for midweek games. there's no spare trains so we get the regular service. saturday there are spare trains and they put on extra and longer services. unless the club pay several tens of millions for extra trains for 20 odd games a year this wont change - it's not on the railways to provide additional services.

more pragmatically, the club should be either hiring or buying bus and coaches to run shuttles Brighton and Lewes. that's the solution, not relying on rail that doesn't have the flexibility.

Or alternatively they shouldn't have scrapped 46 units without replacement.

Easy 10 · 2024-10-31T10:17:18+0000

jackalbion said:
I tried to stay away from this thread as, people don't want to hear crap excuses, because last night was a complete shambles, but post lockdown the lack of available rolling stock in the entire country is the problem. Nobody within this entire country seems interested in trying to solve it, its not just a matchday issue, but like I said no one is interested in improving infrastructure and rolling stock provision.

What happened to the rolling stock during lockdown then. Did they roll it over a cliff ?

(not being snarky towards your goodself of course, but I don't really understand why post-lockdown we now have a shortage)

Bozza · 2024-10-31T10:22:56+0000

Terry Butcher Tribute Act said:
And there is part of the issue. An email went out at lunch time telling people to allow more time that same day.

Where do people get this 'more time' from if they finish work at 5 or 530, and have an onward connection afterwards that they can't risk for fear of missing a last train.

It just isn't an option for the majority of people at a midweek fixture to leave home at 3pm, or accept not getting home at 1 in the morning.

Not only where do people get more time from - as you suggest 7:30 kick-offs are a push for many, but what the hell does "please seek alternative travel arrangements" mean?

Just what are the alternatives if the trains are known to be f***ed and car parks are sold out?

jackalbion · 2024-10-31T10:26:06+0000

Easy 10 said:
What happened to the rolling stock during lockdown then. Did they roll it over a cliff ?

(not being snarky towards your goodself of course, but I don't really understand why post-lockdown we now have a shortage)

Service was reduced, and taken under government control basically, which wasn't a massive change in GTRs contract, but companies had more of emphasis to pay back money loaned during lockdown to keep service running when there were minimal passengers. Cost savings were looked at and while there are agreements to run certain services, there aren't always on carriage lengths. The decision was to retire the units and reduce lengths, as well as reduce frequency on some routes (The West Worthing Stopper for example). The 313s were then retired as a cost saving measure as they are on lease, and the government was funding them. Therefore meaning there wasn't the usual spare units on weekdays to strengthen, Eastbourne and Seaford services to 8s, as well as run the Lewes shuttles as 6 car 313s. The problem is of course there hasn't been investment in new rolling stock, which while is needed down in the south, is needed even more up north, its a problem every government kicks down the road. I think changes to commuter/leisure numbers has affected it slightly, and is probably where a solution can be found.

Gwylan · 2024-10-31T10:26:47+0000

beorhthelm said:
more pragmatically, the club should be either hiring or buying bus and coaches to run shuttles Brighton and Lewes. that's the solution, not relying on rail that doesn't have the flexibility.

I think it's drivers that's the main issue - there aren't enough. Having said that, could it be worth the club paying for PSV training for staff? They could then have their own drivers on tap. It would be a big investment but peanuts in terms of Brighton's turnover.

jackalbion · 2024-10-31T10:27:57+0000

Bozza said:
Not only where do people get more time from - as you suggest 7:30 kick-offs are a push for many, but what the hell does "please seek alternative travel arrangements" mean?

Just what are the alternatives if the trains are known to be f***ed and car parks are sold out?

The 7:30 KO doesn't help, it squeezes the number of trains available to get to the stadium on time. Palace have it mandated that their games kick off at 8, why can't we have the same?

AK74 · 2024-10-31T10:28:10+0000

Terry Butcher Tribute Act said:
And there is part of the issue. An email went out at lunch time telling people to allow more time that same day.

Where do people get this 'more time' from if they finish work at 5 or 530, and have an onward connection afterwards that they can't risk for fear of missing a last train.

It just isn't an option for the majority of people at a midweek fixture to leave home at 3pm, or accept not getting home at 1 in the morning.

The club are damned if they do [say something], and damned if they don't.

Could the email have gone sooner? Maybe.

And if they had sent it several days in advance, would that have persuaded those affected to book a half-day from work to get there earlier? Who knows.

But if the club still has a transport manager, he/she/they/them etc. should regularly observe the arrival and departure of the crowd to accurately understand what everyone endures across the various modes. They might do this already, of course.

el punal · 2024-10-31T10:34:32+0000

I don’t how much the club pay the train and bus companies for subsidising the fans travel costs but I decided to do a rough, very rough!, calculation on how much train travel would cost to/from Brighton to Falmer. Here goes :

Adult Return Fare - £4.30

Anticipated number of fans using trains - 20,000

Revenue based on the above per match - £86,000

Annual Revenue (for 19 fixtures) - £1,634,000

Food for thought and all that. Can we set up a GoFund Me page for a monorail? :drink:

Easy 10 · 2024-10-31T10:36:25+0000

jackalbion said:
Service was reduced, and taken under government control basically, which wasn't a massive change in GTRs contract, but companies had more of emphasis to pay back money loaned during lockdown to keep service running when there were minimal passengers. Cost savings were looked at and while there are agreements to run certain services, there aren't always on carriage lengths. The decision was to retire the units and reduce lengths, as well as reduce frequency on some routes (The West Worthing Stopper for example). The 313s were then retired as a cost saving measure as they are on lease, and the government was funding them. therefore meaning there weren't the usual spare units on weekdays to strengthen, Eastbourne and Seaford services to 8s, as well as run the Lewes shuttles as 6 car 313s. The problem is of course there hasn't been investment in new rolling stock, which while is needed down in the south, is needed even more up north, its a problem every government kicks down the road. I think changes to commuter/leisure numbers has affected it slightly, and is probably where a solution can be found.

Interesting, thanks for that. The usual shitshow then - a massive costcutting exercise, and to hell with all the long-term consequences. Us muggles just have to suck it up.

Milano · 2024-10-31T10:39:46+0000

This feels horribly like a situation where something really bad needs to happen for anything to change.

Surely to God club senior management can't just shrug when they see images like last night? We all know how much Bloom and Barber care for this club. This can't be sitting right with them.

I once lived on a 30mph main road that regularly had crashes due to speeding cars, I once asked a council inspector "how do we get a speed camera here?", his response - "there has to be a fatality". Sad state of affairs.

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[Travel] Train disruption Tonight (Cup versus Liverpool)

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