[News] What do you do?

[birthofanorange]

12 and 14 year olds accused of murder.
What do you do with them? Not after a binfest - this is shocking.
Any ideas?

 

[schmunk]

Secure, nurture and educate. Most likely things they've been short of thus far.

 

[Flounce]

Past help I imagine

 

[birthofanorange]

Secure, nurture and educate. Most likely things they've been short of thus far.

Sounds easy, but after the event? I'm just horrified that such young ones have that ability within them.
Hell, I was far less than a saint, but this is a level I didn't know existed at their age.

 

[schmunk]

Sounds easy, but after the event? I'm just horrified that such young ones have that ability within them.
Hell, I was far less than a saint, but this is a level I didn't know existed at their age.

What else do you suggest?

 

[WATFORD zero]

12 and 14 year olds accused of murder.
What do you do with them? Not after a binfest - this is shocking.
Any ideas?

Sadly, this is nothing new. Young children (which is what they are) have done absolutely horrendous things over the years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_killers

And that list is far, far from complete.

What we can hope is that every case is studied and any chance missed to stop this, gets the right procedural changes to stop a similar incident happening again. And this has been proven to happen, and the incidence has reduced over the years.

However, if you're asking what goes on in their minds for this to happen, I have no idea

But I'm willing to bet that in the majority of cases, they won't have had anything close to what the vast majority of us would consider a 'normal' childhood.

 

[dazzer6666]

Past help I imagine

…..absolutely have to try.

 

[birthofanorange]

What else do you suggest?

Not a clue, but I wouldn't have them on the streets again. Maybe a 'Lord of the Flies' scenario, on a faraway island.

 

[junior]

Lock them away, for a long time.

That does two things...

Firstly and most importantly it prevents them from being able to cause this extreme harm to anyone else, like you, me and our loved ones.

Secondly, it shows and educates others that these actions have consequences. This is important. It's weak sentences and a 'soft' criminal justice system that has in my opinion, contributed to the rise in violent knife crime.

As has been so dramatically demonstrated recently by the tactics around the public disorder sentencing, putting people in fear of going to prison for a (relatively) long time pretty much stopped the riots/disorder overnight.
I saw a lot of people alarmed at perceived 'extreme' sentencing for what they described as low level offences when looked at singularity. However those people didn't get those sentences as Thier punishment fitted the crimes. They got them as it was the most effective way of the government/criminal justice system bringing an absolutely necessary end to the violence for the greater good of the nation.

If you answer the original question in the OP with anything along the lines of education, hugs, love, nurturing etc...then you will be indirectly responsible for the next time something like this happens.

 

[Hamilton]

Cut off their goolies!

 

[Cotton Socks]

It's a difficult one. There's usually a 'ringleader' in these types of things & others get caught up in it.
Think of the the gobshite bully at school who has a little 'gang' following, often because they're worried they're going to get beaten up by the bully if they don't 'follow'. I think every school has one, for each school year, & there's the 'top' bully who just doesn't care who they pick on, or what age they are.
What @schmunk says, has a great deal of merit. But it's not easy to untangle something like this & neither can anyone just say it's because they've had an insecure upbringing. Loads of people haven't had the best of upbringings but don't go around beating people up.
Where do you draw the line? A charge of murder has to include 'intent'. Did all of them 'intend' to kill him? Did any of them 'intend' to kill him? So many things to consider before locking them all up & throwing away the key. At the ages of 12 & 14 there is hope of rehabilitation. Locking them up for years in a YOI will most likely make them 'top dog' again as they're in there for murder. I'm not saying they shouldn't go to prison, it's just so complicated.
RIP to the poor guy.

 

[Professor Plum]

12 and 14 year olds accused of murder.
What do you do with them? Not after a binfest - this is shocking.
Any ideas?

Every case is different and we don’t know the detailed backstory here. But it’s sometimes tempting to lock up the parents rather than the kids.

 

[Peacehaven Wild Kids]

I don’t know.

I often despair at the news, this one brought me to tears.

 

[Peacehaven Wild Kids]

But it’s sometimes tempting to lock up the parents rather than the kids.

It is, however (and I’m deliberately keeping this brief) I have some friends, and they are bloody good parents but they have a teenage son who, let’s say, is a challenge.

 

[Commander]

Lock them away, for a long time.

That does two things...

Firstly and most importantly it prevents them from being able to cause this extreme harm to anyone else, like you, me and our loved ones.

Secondly, it shows and educates others that these actions have consequences. This is important. It's weak sentences and a 'soft' criminal justice system that has in my opinion, contributed to the rise in violent knife crime.

As has been so dramatically demonstrated recently by the tactics around the public disorder sentencing, putting people in fear of going to prison for a (relatively) long time pretty much stopped the riots/disorder overnight.
I saw a lot of people alarmed at perceived 'extreme' sentencing for what they described as low level offences when looked at singularity. However those people didn't get those sentences as Thier punishment fitted the crimes. They got them as it was the most effective way of the government/criminal justice system bringing an absolutely necessary end to the violence for the greater good of the nation.

If you answer the original question in the OP with anything along the lines of education, hugs, love, nurturing etc...then you will be indirectly responsible for the next time something like this happens.

Is there any evidence to show that what you suggest works? Can you point us in the direction of some academic studies that show the link between long sentences and a fall in crime rates?

I’m sure it’s not just stuff that you’re assuming / repeating from others, but it would be interesting to know the details / facts.

 

[A mex eyecan]

I find it so depressing….
I also find it concerning that 80 isn’t that far off. Being old and frail is bad enough let alone the thought there’s kids/adults out there that see old people as an east soft target.

 

[schmunk]

I find it so depressing….
I also find it concerning that 80 isn’t that far off. Being old and frail is bad enough let alone the thought there’s kids/adults out there that see old people as an east soft target.

If it makes you feel any better*, 'twas ever thus. Violent crime is no worse now than at any point in history.



* but I suspect it won't

 

[WATFORD zero]

I don’t know.

I often despair at the news, this one brought me to tears.

These horrendous things happen, but are becoming rarer generation upon generation. The one that really got me was Maria Colwell because it was local and at that time, if it wasn't local or particularly horrendous you didn't know.

But with the technology now we see everything that happens within Britain and around the world within seconds. But what we have to do is to put things in place to make it less likely year on year. It is why it is so thankfully rare these days but we still have to work hard constantly and consistently to make it rarer

 

[Professor Plum]

It is, however (and I’m deliberately keeping this brief) I have some friends, and they are bloody good parents but they have a teenage son who, let’s say, is a challenge.

Absolutely understood, and that’s why I say every case is different. I’m not advocating punishing parents who have tried to do the right thing. I was a bit of a tearaway myself as a teen and that wasn’t anything to do with bad parenting. But in some cases…

 

[WATFORD zero]

I find it so depressing….
I also find it concerning that 80 isn’t that far off. Being old and frail is bad enough let alone the thought there’s kids/adults out there that see old people as an east soft target.

I'm now mid 60's and feel safer strolling round any part of Brighton at night than I ever did in the 70s

But getting older and frailer is a right pisser and I don't have any answer to that