[Albion] Brentford - away tickets

[dazzer6666]

I guess you could look at it that way, but everyone in tier 1 can already do that and just take a loss and leave the seat empty - we're talking £30 in most cases, and considerably less for concessions (of which we have plenty). All popular games go to tier 2 anyway and rarely beyond that. At least this way, it is possible for those in the relevant tiers to pick up a ticket that they may have missed out on. The reality is that those in tier 2 are often in a binfest for scraps anyway - see Brentford.

This is good for everyone imo even if there are some loopholes here and there. Nothing is perfect.

Most away concessions aren’t really considerably less…….most of ours will be seniors or 18-21/24 (if the latter get any concession at all), and they’re usually £25 (or more - think Villa was 29.50) vs £30 for full price (except Palace who are generously charging £22).

 

[dazzer6666]

Er... surely it's being brought it specifically to avoid non-attending fans being left out of pocket?!

Partly, but also to ensure as many as possible get the chance to go ?

 

[Milano]

I'd say that there is a case for these games that sell out within 5 minutes of tier 2 opening that those games carry zero loyalty points. It's just making the gap wider and those games are the very few which are essentially a closed shop. Being guarenteed a ticket to Palace, Brentford, Muff, should be reward enough for a tier 1 without getting even more points on top.

 

[dazzer6666]

I'd say that there is a case for these games that sell out within 5 minutes of tier 2 opening that those games carry zero loyalty points. It's just making the gap wider and those games are the very few which are essentially a closed shop. Being guarenteed a ticket to Palace, Brentford, Muff, should be reward enough for a tier 1 without getting even more points on top.

….or increase the points for games that don’t typically sell well.

 

[jackalbion]

I'd say that there is a case for these games that sell out within 5 minutes of tier 2 opening that those games carry zero loyalty points. It's just making the gap wider and those games are the very few which are essentially a closed shop. Being guarenteed a ticket to Palace, Brentford, Muff, should be reward enough for a tier 1 without getting even more points on top.

I don't think it is a closed shop though, there will be some people this season going to Brentford for the first time (much like there was last year).

 

[Gazwag]

….or increase the points for games that don’t typically sell well.

Its the only games that typically don't sell well that the low pointers can get to, increasing those points may take that opportunity away

 

[dazzer6666]

Its the only games that typically don't sell well that the low pointers can get to, increasing those points may take that opportunity away

Might encourage more of them to go if it means getting up the tiers faster

 

[studio150]

I'd say that there is a case for these games that sell out within 5 minutes of tier 2 opening that those games carry zero loyalty points. It's just making the gap wider and those games are the very few which are essentially a closed shop. Being guarenteed a ticket to Palace, Brentford, Muff, should be reward enough for a tier 1 without getting even more points on top.

It's only 5 points for these games, but those points do give those in tier 2 who get a ticket a small step forward. Also not everyone in tier 1 is 200 points or more above the threshold.

 

[Gazwag]

Might encourage more of them to go if it means getting up the tiers faster

Man City was 15 points, initial allocation sold out very quickly into the all STH band, 1,000 were then released in the top tier that would have sold almost all to low pointers as 1,000 top three tier fans didn't want to go. That IMO worked well. We still sold out. Had 20 points been on offer, would that have meant those tickets would have been gobbled up by Tier 3 fans looking for the extra boost.

 

[studio150]

I disagree. This is good news because it allows the club to sanction those fans that buy away tickets then just don't go. OK they don't get the points but no one else does either and crucially there is an empty seat in the away end.
Once there is an away exchange then I hope that the club introduce a zero tolerance to the above scenario. Buy a ticket and just don't turn up = excluded from buying a ticket in the next away match window.
At the moment they can't do anything because there is no way to return the ticket.

Surely it must mirror the home system to some degree.
So you've attended over 100 consecutive games, but on the morning of an away game, a close family member dies and you decide to not go. You can't list the ticket on the away exchange as it should have been listed by 2pm the day before the game.

Currently you receive no points for your non attendance, and lose £30. But now you want to have no points, lose £30 and ban them from the next away game. i would have thought that if this occurs that for the first missed away game in the season it is effectively as now zero points and lose £30 but for any further missed away games in the same season, then further action can be considered.

 

[Milano]

Surely it must mirror the home system to some degree.
So you've attended over 100 consecutive games, but on the morning of an away game, a close family member dies and you decide to not go. You can't list the ticket on the away exchange as it should have been listed by 2pm the day before the game.

Currently you receive no points for your non attendance, and lose £30. But now you want to have no points, lose £30 and ban them from the next away game. i would have thought that if this occurs that for the first missed away game in the season it is effectively as now zero points and lose £30 but for any further missed away games in the same season, then further action can be considered.

The home system is based on you buying 19 matches, you are 'allowed' to miss 5.
I think you've gone extreme there with your scenario!!! In that type of scenario you should be able to contact the club.
Now give me a more common scenario, like your car broke down on the way. It could happen, but not often, so maybe you are 'allowed' one strike per season.
The more likely scenarios of not going and not relisting are "got a better offer last minute" or "couldn't be bothered because your friend couldn't go anymore" and that is what the club needs to deter.

 

[Beanstalk]

Most away concessions aren’t really considerably less…….most of ours will be seniors or 18-21/24 (if the latter get any concession at all), and they’re usually £25 (or more - think Villa was 29.50) vs £30 for full price (except Palace who are generously charging £22).

"Considerably" a bit of a hyperbole for sure, but Arsenal for example were £17.50 for Seniors compared to £30 for adults.

My point was more that if you are happy to make a small loss there is absolutely nothing currently stopping a tier 1 buying tickets for every game that they may go to and then deciding not to go if a better offer comes up. A potential £25 rebate isn't going to suddenly make tier 1 fans buy tickets with no intention of going, but it is going to allow those who may have missed out by 5 points the opportunity to grab a ticket closer to the date.

Worth caveating that I don't think the above scenario is currently happening and I don't think there is any need to bring in arbitrary system that punishes people for a hypothetical that isn't happening. Our away end is always full and you wouldn't get the points if you didn't turn up every time so there aren't people in tier 1 doing this.

 

[Wozza]

A potential £25 rebate isn't going to suddenly make tier 1 fans buy tickets with no intention of going,

Of course not. But without a penalty, why wouldn't you buy a ticket if you think you might go to a match... depending on friends, transport, the weather etc?!

Even it's a 20% chance, you'd buy.

There's not even a time constraint for Teir 1. They can casually buy on the evening of day one.

And, as I said before, in this scenario there will be loads of single tickets back on sale, which just adds to the chaos.

So there HAS to be a resale penalty. £10, I reckon.

After all, if the reasons are genuine, the ticketholder should be grateful to get anything back.

 

[Beanstalk]

Of course not. But without a penalty, why wouldn't you buy a ticket if you think you might go to a match... depending on friends, transport, the weather etc?!

Even it's a 20% chance, you'd buy.

There's not even a time constraint for Teir 1. They can casually buy on the evening of day one.

And, as I said before, in this scenario there will be loads of single tickets back on sale, which just adds to the chaos.

So there HAS to be a resale penalty. £10, I reckon.

After all, if the reasons are genuine, the ticketholder should be grateful to get anything back.

I get all your points but if my dad (65+) bought an Arsenal ticket for £17.50 and thought I may or may not go, why would he go to the hassle of putting it onto the exchange if he's going to lose 57% of that for the trouble of ensuring that a different fan gets to go to the game? There's no incentive for him to go out of his way to use the exchange even if his original intention was to go.

You either encourage fans to use the exchange with no penalisation, assuming they bought the ticket with the intention of going, and see it as something that offers an opportunity to another fan to attend, or you won't see anyone use it and this hypothetical fan (who is somehow both committed enough to have built up hundreds of points over the last 8 years to put themselves in the top 3,000 fans and can't be bothered at the same time) will still not attend the game.

The reality is, if you don't go to the game, you don't get the points and very quickly you'd no longer be in tier 1 and have the opportunity to theoretically buy a ticket to a game you may or may not go to. That's the punishment.

 

[Hotchilidog]

This is only good news for those in tier 1, imo.

They can 'buy now, decide later' while those in lower tiers who missed out have to keep checking back, waiting for scraps (returns).

And many returns will be single, isolated seats.

One would assume that only the end user would accrue the points allocated for attending though. I think sometimes too much thought is given to the motivation of people in Tier 1, they just want to go to the games and they do so in numbers sufficiently large enough to get points for tier 1.

If you go to Stoke away on a Tuesday night for an FA Cup game that is on TV, just for the points then quite frankly you deserve them. You do not make that commitment lightly.

I think exchange would be welcome as a small number of people may well have to miss out on a game due to illness, work or family related matters. Providing the person listing the ticket does not receive the points for the fixture and they go to the person that buys the ticket on the exchange then I don't see too much room for abuse.

 

[Wozza]

I get all your points but if my dad (65+) bought an Arsenal ticket for £17.50 and thought I may or may not go, why would he go to the hassle of putting it onto the exchange if he's going to lose 57% of that for the trouble of ensuring that a different fan gets to go to the game? There's no incentive for him to go out of his way to use the exchange even if his original intention was to go.

Wait, you - or your father - wouldn't do a 2min task for a partial refund, even knowing another fan would benefit?!

What a world we live in.

 

[Beanstalk]

Wait, you - or your father - wouldn't do a 2min task for a partial refund, even knowing another fan would benefit?!

What a world we live in.

I think my argument was quite logical. There is already a punishment in place (not receiving the points and potentially dropping down a tier) and then to be double punished by being charged £10 (which goes straight into the coffers of our record breaking profit football club) for doing the right thing is an absolutely insane proposal.

The world we live in is that it's give and it's take. If I couldn't go to a game for whatever reason, I would want my ticket to be used by another fan. I would happily take time out of my day to put it on said exchange and forfeit the right to go to that game. What I wouldn't be happy about is if I was then charged the majority of the ticket cost to not go! It's not a fair exchange.

Now, you've created a hypothetical fan who doesn't go because they want to but does so to stay in tier 1. They not only don't particularly care about watching their football club but they actively deny others from seeing the Albion by buying and not going to sold out fixtures. They weren't willing to attend for £30. Why would they be willing to take extra steps to not attend at the cost of £10 when they could just not use the exchange and not turn up? The money clearly isn't a worry if they're happy to spend £30 in the knowledge that they may not go, so why would they want to use the exchange at cost?

 

[Wozza]

I think my argument was quite logical. There is already a punishment in place (not receiving the points and potentially dropping down a tier) and then to be double punished by being charged £10 (which goes straight into the coffers of our record breaking profit football club) for doing the right thing is an absolutely insane proposal.

The world we live in is that it's give and it's take. If I couldn't go to a game for whatever reason, I would want my ticket to be used by another fan. I would happily take time out of my day to put it on said exchange and forfeit the right to go to that game. What I wouldn't be happy about is if I was then charged the majority of the ticket cost to not go! It's not a fair exchange.

Now, you've created a hypothetical fan who doesn't go because they want to but does so to stay in tier 1. They not only don't particularly care about watching their football club but they actively deny others from seeing the Albion by buying and not going to sold out fixtures. They weren't willing to attend for £30. Why would they be willing to take extra steps to not attend at the cost of £10 when they could just not use the exchange and not turn up? The money clearly isn't a worry if they're happy to spend £30 in the knowledge that they may not go, so why would they want to use the exchange at cost?

I think you've shown your true colours. I'm out.

 

[Beanstalk]

I think you've shown your true colours. I'm out.

Blue and White

 

[dazzer6666]

I think my argument was quite logical. There is already a punishment in place (not receiving the points and potentially dropping down a tier) and then to be double punished by being charged £10 (which goes straight into the coffers of our record breaking profit football club) for doing the right thing is an absolutely insane proposal.

The world we live in is that it's give and it's take. If I couldn't go to a game for whatever reason, I would want my ticket to be used by another fan. I would happily take time out of my day to put it on said exchange and forfeit the right to go to that game. What I wouldn't be happy about is if I was then charged the majority of the ticket cost to not go! It's not a fair exchange.

Now, you've created a hypothetical fan who doesn't go because they want to but does so to stay in tier 1. They not only don't particularly care about watching their football club but they actively deny others from seeing the Albion by buying and not going to sold out fixtures. They weren't willing to attend for £30. Why would they be willing to take extra steps to not attend at the cost of £10 when they could just not use the exchange and not turn up? The money clearly isn't a worry if they're happy to spend £30 in the knowledge that they may not go, so why would they want to use the exchange at cost?

I'd rather give my ticket away for free than see it go unused if I was unable to go for any reason. At the moment I can't do that.