[Politics] Donald Trump, US President

[Green Cross Code Man]

So if we follow the logic (yeah I know but stick with it). If God controls the climate then he/she/they has chosen to increase natural disasters in the last decade or so, fires, drought, cyclones, etc etc.

We would have to ask ourselves why? They are not adverse to using weather events to punish us for wrong doing, Noah's flood, pestilence, raining frogs etc. so perhaps we are doing shit wrong? Orare they just a psychotic god that likes to f*** with us?

and these people worship this god?

A christian can be a person who views God in many different manners. From all my time spent in church over the years and reading the bible, it is apparent to me that it teaches a person about consequences and the value of learning from past mistakes. These Trump followers are misrepresenting their faith (not that I believe that most of these politicians are actual believers, they are simply using religion in the way Trump does) and their stance advocates no personal responsibility for actions. They represent a great evil which sits fine with Trump as he will never in a million years ever admit to being wrong.

 

[Eric the meek]

True but he's not *just* thick.
He belongs to Putin.
Absolutely

I'm not so sure. His actions are certainly as if he is owned by Putin if you take them in isolation.

Having been on the Russia-Ukraine war thread for three years, I've seen many theories come and go. Krasnov is just one of them. A loose consensus is that he isn't a Russian asset, but a toxic combination of arrogance, ignorance and incompetence.

While he cosies up to Russia, he allows his VP to insult China, and sticks insane tariffs on China. I suspect it is because he regards China as the pre-eminent threat to US national security, and therefore wants the Russia-China 'friendship' to dissolve. So he tries to effect a split, but keep the lesser of two evils, Russia onside.

There's more. The tariffs are not good news for anyone, but especially Russia, whose economy is (perhaps terminally) weakened by its invasion of Ukraine. The price of the low quality Urals oil is critical to Russian exports and therefore its war chest. The tariffs (= downturn in global economic activity = lower demand for oil = downward pressure on oil prices), could also be viewed as intentional or unintentional pressure on Russia to bring them to the negotiating table, something which the US has failed at hitherto.

If Trump in his arrogance, believes he can beat China's economy down with tariffs, imagine how Russia sees the (unspoken) threat.

'Vlad, look at what I can do. You've got 90 days. Otherwise I'll cut demand from your major oil customer'.

(Real outcomes may differ from the above hypothetical scenario).

 

[Eric the meek]

I'm in the wrong business

Maga wear, meme coins, Trump crypto. He has monetised the US presidency.

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[Han Solo]

A christian can be a person who views God in many different manners. From all my time spent in church over the years and reading the bible, it is apparent to me that it teaches a person about consequences and the value of learning from past mistakes. These Trump followers are misrepresenting their faith (not that I believe that most of these politicians are actual believers, they are simply using religion in the way Trump does) and their stance advocates no personal responsibility for actions. They represent a great evil which sits fine with Trump as he will never in a million years ever admit to being wrong.

American society breeds a type of Jacob Frank-christian that wears religion as a bag of honour to hide or compensate for their complete lack of human values. Paedo priests, people praying by day and selling drugs at night, smug and proud people going to church on Sunday and murdering on Monday. Obviously, in more secular societies like the European, "oh those religious freaks again!".. but it really isn't that simple. Religion isn't to be blamed - even if the corruption of religions certainly play a role in the development.

Not a Christian myself, in my perspective it is a religion created to make people proud and content about being poor and powerless, but religion certainly gets too much blame for the conflicts in the world. Trump and his followers alleged Christianity isn't the cause of any problem... that he is a greedy capitalist-vulture who promotes hatred, death and violence in almost satanic fashion is the storyline people should pay attention to.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Yep:

Is he back on the sauce?

 

[Albion my Albion]

and these people worship this god?

Only on Saturday, Sunday and some Wednesday nights during Lent which is....................................................oh, my

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

American society breeds a type of Jacob Frank-christian that wears religion as a bag of honour to hide or compensate for their complete lack of human values. Paedo priests, people praying by day and selling drugs at night, smug and proud people going to church on Sunday and murdering on Monday. Obviously, in more secular societies like the European, "oh those religious freaks again!".. but it really isn't that simple. Religion isn't to be blamed - even if the corruption of religions certainly play a role in the development.

Not a Christian myself, in my perspective it is a religion created to make people proud and content about being poor and powerless, but religion certainly gets too much blame for the conflicts in the world. Trump and his followers alleged Christianity isn't the cause of any problem... that he is a greedy capitalist-vulture who promotes hatred, death and violence in almost satanic fashion is the storyline people should pay attention to.

Yes you are right imo that religion isn't in itself as much a cause of the problems of humanity as some would like to think. If anyone thinks that the abuses of power that occur in such a situation would not occur if the religion was removed, they are sadly mistaken. I've often read and heard 'if only there was no religion'. Ostensibly this may sound like a solution, but it's simplistic in that it doesn't address, nor can it, the corruption that power and greed and the desire to dominate bring.

 

[Bodian]

I'm not so sure. His actions are certainly as if he is owned by Putin if you take them in isolation.

Having been on the Russia-Ukraine war thread for three years, I've seen many theories come and go. Krasnov is just one of them. A loose consensus is that he isn't a Russian asset, but a toxic combination of arrogance, ignorance and incompetence.

While he cosies up to Russia, he allows his VP to insult China, and sticks insane tariffs on China. I suspect it is because he regards China as the pre-eminent threat to US national security, and therefore wants the Russia-China 'friendship' to dissolve. So he tries to effect a split, but keep the lesser of two evils, Russia onside.

There's more. The tariffs are not good news for anyone, but especially Russia, whose economy is (perhaps terminally) weakened by its invasion of Ukraine. The price of the low quality Urals oil is critical to Russian exports and therefore its war chest. The tariffs (= downturn in global economic activity = lower demand for oil = downward pressure on oil prices), could also be viewed as intentional or unintentional pressure on Russia to bring them to the negotiating table, something which the US has failed at hitherto.

If Trump in his arrogance, believes he can beat China's economy down with tariffs, imagine how Russia sees the (unspoken) threat.

'Vlad, look at what I can do. You've got 90 days. Otherwise I'll cut demand from your major oil customer'.

(Real outcomes may differ from the above hypothetical scenario).

I'm not sure the impact on the oil prices was predicted/forecast by the orange twerp. It's a matter on record that Russia was one of the very few countries that he didn't impose sanctions on. And it may well have been when he saw what was happening to oil prices that he 'reduced' the tariffs again.

 

[The Clamp]

Generally speaking, people are clueless about things like this. Many Americans (and others) have a very simplistic view of it:

1. There was a German angry guy with a moustache.
2. He built gas chambers and gassed Jews.
3. America joined in a war against him and saved the world.

The end. All those pesky little details about how Hitler manipulated opinion and perceptions etc... meh. Not important, apparently.

Not just Americans. Someone on here, I forget who now, a week or so ago had a multi-page go at me for comparing the two regimes.
He also seemed to think the Nazis were defined solely by the Holocaust and weirdly accused me of the same.

I’m guessing he was a younger poster but yes, your point is a good one.

 

[Han Solo]

Yes you are right imo that religion isn't in itself as much a cause of the problems of humanity as some would like to think. If anyone thinks that the abuses of power that occur in such a situation would not occur if the religion was removed, they are sadly mistaken. I've often read and heard 'if only there was no religion'. Ostensibly this may sound like a solution, but it's simplistic in that it doesn't address, nor can it, the corruption that power and greed and the desire to dominate bring.

Indeed. The idea that some sort of global nihilism would have been less bloody than societies being controlled through religious values... I doubt it. Doesn't seem rational to me... seems like people have just watched too much South Park.

 

[Zeberdi]

Not just Americans. Someone on here, I forget who now, a week or so ago had a multi-page go at me for comparing the two regimes.
He also seemed to think the Nazis were defined solely by the Holocaust and weirdly accused me of the same.

I’m guessing he was a younger poster but yes, your point is a good one.

You have completely misrepresented my argument - which was SOLELY that the majority of people associate Nazi Germany with the persecution of the Jews and subsequent Holocaust so anyone making a reference to Nazi Germany by saying America is “as bad as the Nazi regime’ and does not include the persecution of Jews/Holocaust as an overriding aspect of that, diminishes and devalues of the significance of the murder of 6 million Jews.

But you feel free to continue to discuss Nazi Germany with a poster that has a record of antisemitism on NSC and is banned from having such discussions.

And FYI, I am in my 60s, Jewish and a direct descendant of Polish and Austrian Jews who were persecuted and subsequently tortured under the Nazi regime so I think I probably know a little about the subject matter from family history and firsthand experience and frankly find it offensive that you agree with the (antisemitic?) view that Jews like myself, “are clueless about things like this...and have a very simplistic view of it”.

I assure you the Jewish understanding of persecution in Germany and ultimately the Holocaust is far from simplistic. It is a very painful part of our history and not something that should be used as hyperbole or weaponised in arguments on the internet.

Lets make comparisons by all means and recognise elements of dictatorial governance but don’t as you did in the post I was responding to a few weeks back, make the false equivalence that American society or the Republican controlled Congress is “as bad as Hitler’s Nazi Germany”.

 

[Han Solo]

Wow!

You really want to continue this discussion after we put it to bed days ago?

You have completely misrepresented my argument - which was SOLELY that the majority of people associate Nazi Germany with the persecution of the Jews and subsequent Holocaust so anyone making a reference to Nazi Germany by saying America is “as bad as the Nazi regime’ and does not include the persecution of Jews/Holocaust as an overriding aspect of that, diminishes and devalues of the significance of the murder of 6 million Jews.

But you feel free to continue to discuss Nazi Germany with a poster that has a record of antisemitism on NSC and is banned from having such discussions.

And FYI, I am in my 60s, Jewish and a direct descendant of Polish and Austrian Jews who were persecuted and subsequently tortured under the Nazi regime so I think I probably know a little about the subject matter from family history and firsthand experience and frankly find it offensive that you agree with the (antisemitic?) view that Jews like myself, “are clueless about things like this...and have a very simplistic view of it”.

I assure you the Jewish understanding of persecution in Germany and ultimately the Holocaust is far from simplistic.

The reason why the American regime is being compared to Nazi Germany isn't because it has killed many million people, but because it might do so in the future. People doing the comparison is not trying to devalue history, they're trying to save the future from those/similar horrors happening again.

 

[Eric the meek]

I'm not sure the impact on the oil prices was predicted/forecast by the orange twerp. It's a matter on record that Russia was one of the very few countries that he didn't impose sanctions on. And it may well have been when he saw what was happening to oil prices that he 'reduced' the tariffs again.

I remember him being in favour of increasing US oil production (and therefore exerting downward pressure on oil prices) during his first presidency.

He explained his decision not to impose tariffs on Russia, by saying that Russia is already subject to heavy sanctions. I'm not agreeing with that sentiment, but that is what he said. In any event, as I understand it, trade between the US and Russia is negligible anyway.

The reason why he reduced the tariffs again (or more accurately, reduced them all bar China down to 10% and paused them for 90 days) is an interesting one. It could have been the oil prices as you say, but I would consider that unlikely as he has championed 'cheap gas' for America for a long time. Others have said it was the bond markets yields rising (making it more expensive for the US to service its debt), or it could have been the scale of the pushback e.g. a reciprocal threat from the EU, or elsewhere. He made a lame excuse of saying 'you've got to be flexible', which obviously doesn't cut it. Something happened which forced him to make the U-turn.

 

[The Clamp]

You have completely misrepresented my argument - which was SOLELY that the majority of people associate Nazi Germany with the persecution of the Jews and subsequent Holocaust so anyone making a reference to Nazi Germany by saying America is “as bad as the Nazi regime’ and does not include the persecution of Jews/Holocaust as an overriding aspect of that, diminishes and devalues of the significance of the murder of 6 million Jews.

But you feel free to continue to discuss Nazi Germany with a poster that has a record of antisemitism on NSC and is banned from having such discussions.

And FYI, I am in my 60s, Jewish and a direct descendant of Polish and Austrian Jews who were persecuted and subsequently tortured under the Nazi regime so I think I probably know a little about the subject matter from family history and firsthand experience and frankly find it offensive that you agree with the (antisemitic?) view that Jews like myself, “are clueless about things like this...and have a very simplistic view of it”.

I assure you the Jewish understanding of persecution in Germany and ultimately the Holocaust is far from simplistic. It is a very painful part of our history and not something that should be used as hyperbole or weaponised in arguments on the internet.

Lets make comparisons by all means and recognise elements of dictatorial governance but don’t as you did in the post I was responding to a few weeks back, make the false equivalence that American society or the Republican controlled Congress is “as bad as Hitler’s Nazi Germany”.

Let it go. You made an assumption and called it wrong.

This was all pointed out to you by a few posters.


But no hard feelings on my part. I’ll leave it there.

 

[Zeberdi]

The reason why the American regime is being compared to Nazi Germany isn't because it has killed many million people, but because it might do so in the future. People doing the comparison is not trying to devalue history, they're trying to save the future from those/similar horrors happening again.

Rather a patronising comment. It is obvious why comparisons are being made but that was not the point I took issue with several weeks ago nor is it now.

Why are you again getting into a discussion which you have Specifically be banned from talking about?. You have already shown your hand on NSC what you think about Jews with your lack of understanding around the issues and antisemitic tropes.

America is not a Fascist Regime that has as its central philosophy, a racist and antisemitic agenda but a liberal democracy whose population has voted in a party led by a cult personality who has no ideology except lining the pockets of his own billionaire friends and family and self-aggrandisement. The means to that end are unilateral decision-making, power seeking and narcissistic, transactional relationships with everyone else on the World stage. Of course there are parallels with fascist and dictatorial government but to say America “IS NO BETTER than Nazi Germany” is simply a false equivalence and offensive hyperbole.

 

[Zeberdi]

Let it go. You made an assumption and called it wrong.

You posted untruths on this forum which I took issue with. You said Americans are “no better than the Nazis and more powerful’

As for letting it go, I asked you to do exactly that several weeks ago and yet you felt the need to drag it up again today talking about me to an antisemite ffs.

 

[The Clamp]

You posted untruths on this forum which I took issue with. You said Americans are “no better than the Nazis and more powerful’

As for letting it go, I asked you to do exactly that several weeks ago and yet you felt the need to drag it up again today talking about me to an antisemite ffs.

I have no idea about the antisemite thing. Not seen that mentioned on here about him.

People can discuss Nazis without solely referring to the Holocaust.

But…



Best leave it. No harm intended. I’m sorry I didn’t make myself understood at the time. Mea culpa.

Enjoy the match.

 

[jcdenton08]

The atmosphere has once again turned rrrrather sour

 

[Zeberdi]

Let it go. You made an assumption and called it wrong.

This was all pointed out to you by a few posters.

On the contrary many posters agreed with me: And you were very clear at the time. I fully understood. You said America is as bad as Nazi Germany. I have relatives living in America who are directly ascended from Holocaust survivors who grew up in Eastern Europe - if I would suggest to them that the conditions they were living under the Hitler regime was the same now if not worse because ‘it is more powerful’ they would be incredibly offended and outraged at the trivialisation frankly.

But no hard feelings on my part. I’ll leave it there.

I have no hard feelings either but pl don’t drag it up again with someone else then a few weeks later - especially with someone whose feelings about Jews got him rightly banned.

 

[The Clamp]

On the contrary many posters agreed with me:

I have no hard feelings either but don’t drag it up again with someone else then a few weeks later - misinterpreting what I said and spreading rumours/assumptions about me personally.

Jeez. Get over yourself.