[Albion] Fabian Hurzeler: IN or OUT

[dazzer6666]

Same number of games, and it’s not about individual errors as @Kalimantan Gull highlights they’re out of his control, but it’s the lack of structure particularly out of possession. We literally are all over the place.

Saturday was the last straw for me, because the goals we conceded were all poor. One down to Bart, with that stupid pass out, but the rest were because we’ve learnt little in 33 games.

….and some less than fully fit players, and some playing out of position. There’s no single factor - part injuries, part tactics, part mentality (and the oppo have a say in the outcome too). Awful lot to work on for Weir, Fab, the recruitment team, the medical team and the psychologists before next season

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

….and some less than fully fit players, and some playing out of position. There’s no single factor - part injuries, part tactics, part mentality (and the oppo have a say in the outcome too). Awful lot to work on for Weir, Fab, the recruitment team, the medical team and the psychologists before next season

Definitely, though even with injuries you can still get a basic defensive structure.

 

[Machiavelli]

I don't understand this at all.

At the back, he's been scabbling around to put four bodies out there for weeks now - it's not a matter of favourites, more who is still standing and can defend a bit.

in midfield, Baleba plays when fit and I'm not sure many would argue with that. Alongside him all of Ayari, Gomez and O'Riley have been given goes, whilst Hinshelwood has been filling in further back. Wieffer has struggled with fitness, so has had limited chances.

Out wide, Mitoma will nearly always start, and I think that's also correct. Minteh has been given most of the right-wing chances, but neither Adingra nor Gruda have particularly shone when given opportunities and Solly March is, by his own admission, unable to start.

Up front it was a case of perm 2 from 3, but with Georginio now crocked we've had to play the only two left. And now one of them is suspended for the next three games.

Just which favourites have been playing when they shouldn't, and who would you have been playing instead?

Thank you for posting this.
This is the starting-point for any analysis.

 

[Bozza]

I appreciate I might be coming across as the leader of the Fabian Hurzeler Appreciation Society, but it's really not that at all - I'm merely trying to present an alternative viewpoint to some of those being offered.

He may or may not be a good manager, he may or may not be the right manager for us right now, but if Mats Wieffer hadn't f***ed up *that* pass, If Igor hadn't tried *that* dribble, if our players were able to hit a cow's arse with a banjo at home to Southampton and Leicester we'd be sitting on the cusp of the Champions League places.

It would still be the same chaotic, lack of structure, no identity football that seems to be causing so much angst, but with a few less individual errors/bad decisions it would have us better placed than ever before.

And far fewer, possibly none, of these moans would be happening.

Fine, fine margins.

 

[Deadly Danson]

I appreciate I might be coming across as the leader of the Fabian Hurzeler Appreciation Society, but it's really not that at all - I'm merely trying to present an alternative viewpoint to some of those being offered.

He may or may not be a good manager, he may or may not be the right manager for us right now, but if Mats Wieffer hadn't f***ed up *that* pass, If Igor hadn't tried *that* dribble, if our players were able to hit a cow's arse with a banjo at home to Southampton and Leicester we'd be sitting on the cusp of the Champions League places.

It would still be the same chaotic, lack of structure, no identity football that seems to be causing so much angst, but with a few less individual errors/bad decisions it would have us better placed than ever before.

And none of these moans would be happening.

Fine, fine margins.

Agree with this. Both the Wolves and Leicester games were almost perfect apart from those two calamitous errors. On the flip side of course the Everton away game, which we all look back now on as an easy romp, I remember us getting very lucky in the first few minutes and could easily have been a goal or two down and then a correct but perhaps lucky VAR overrule of the penalty award which changes the game. Football is chaos - no one knows anything and you always need a bit of luck and almost every game relies on a few moments going for or against you. Even that Arsenal v Real Madrid game recently that Arsenal fans describe as one of the best ever relied on two once in a lifetime free kicks to change the game. That said, I remain to be convinced that FH is the man to take us forward, I just haven't seen enough of what he's trying to do except "intensity" and frankly I haven't even seen enough of that. But again, I do wonder what he would have done with a fully fit squad and the cohesion and consistency that brings. It's a tricky one for TB.

 

[Mancgull]

I haven’t read the whole thread, but it’s the manner of the result of most games that’s worrying. There’s only 4 games I’d say we controlled and got a comfortable win:

Everton away (First game of the season)
Man United away
Chelsea home
Southampton away

I know that’s not always how football works, and we have more wins than that, but awful that only one of them came at home.

Injuries have hit us, incredibly badly, but I don’t think that’s an excuse for how patchy we’ve been. We’ve got some great wins, but does feel a number of them were laced with luck/not fully deserved.

The first 20/25 minutes of Everton away were scary! Completely on the back foot and could have conceded 2/3 goals.
I’m glad I still remember as it proves that my memory is still ok!

 

[Commander]

I appreciate I might be coming across as the leader of the Fabian Hurzeler Appreciation Society, but it's really not that at all - I'm merely trying to present an alternative viewpoint to some of those being offered.

He may or may not be a good manager, he may or may not be the right manager for us right now, but if Mats Wieffer hadn't f***ed up *that* pass, If Igor hadn't tried *that* dribble, if our players were able to hit a cow's arse with a banjo at home to Southampton and Leicester we'd be sitting on the cusp of the Champions League places.

It would still be the same chaotic, lack of structure, no identity football that seems to be causing so much angst, but with a few less individual errors/bad decisions it would have us better placed than ever before.

And far fewer, possibly none, of these moans would be happening.

Fine, fine margins.

100%. And maybe, just maybe, after a (first) full season in the Premier League and a full pre season, the chaotic element of the football might settle into something that we can all get behind, as a very young and up and coming Coach starts to find his feet and work out his squad and the league he is playing in properly. It regularly takes foreign players a season to adapt to the Premier League, and (usually) people accept this, so why can't it be the same with a Coach?

I've said all along I don't think making Europe is necessarily a good thing this season. Finishing 9th and going into next year with this squad and FH in charge with a full season under his belt and hopefully a fully fit squad come August is a really exciting prospect for me. But then I guess the fact that he isn't particularly charismatic doesn't bother me in the slightest, because I'm not such a sensitive Sally as some people.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Self awareness is a wonderful thing. We are both dealing in absolutes

You think he is the messiah and i tend to think he is leaning towards a naughty boy

Question: do you believe he is getting the best out of what he has? I don't believe he is. And having seen all bar 5 games this season in person at the ground i am basing that on what we are doing both in and out of possession

I don't think he's the messiah no. I think he is a very inexperienced manager in his first job managing a top flight team, and in that context yes, I believe he is getting the most he can out of them.

I also think he has learned a lot and I'm looking forward to seeing what his second, third and fourth seasons bring.

If there's no obvious improvement this time next year then it may well be time to part ways. But i certainly have the patience to get there.

--------------------------

Maybe another manager would have got more out of them, but it's a silly question because that's true for basically every team in the world, it ignores that many of the names you're thinking of might have done worse, and is irrelevant because Bloom decided to play a long game and 'get the most points possible in 24-25' clearly wasn't uppermost in his recruitment plans last summer. He wanted a development coach, and again, in that context Fab has done very well.

 

[Clive Walker]

The first 20/25 minutes of Everton away were scary! Completely on the back foot and could have conceded 2/3 goals.
I’m glad I still remember as it proves that my memory is still ok!

We were so so lucky to win that game.

 

[ROSM]

100%. And maybe, just maybe, after a (first) full season in the Premier League and a full pre season, the chaotic element of the football might settle into something that we can all get behind, as a very young and up and coming Coach starts to find his feet and work out his squad and the league he is playing in properly. It regularly takes foreign players a season to adapt to the Premier League, and (usually) people accept this, so why can't it be the same with a Coach?

I've said all along I don't think making Europe is necessarily a good thing this season. Finishing 9th and going into next year with this squad and FH in charge with a full season under his belt and hopefully a fully fit squad come August is a really exciting prospect for me. But then I guess the fact that he isn't particularly charismatic doesn't bother me in the slightest, because I'm not such a sensitive Sally as some people.

You were doing so well until the last line.

 

[Commander]

I don't think he's the messiah no. I think he is a very inexperienced manager in his first job managing a top flight team, and in that context yes, I believe he is getting the most he can out of them.

I also think he has learned a lot and I'm looking forward to seeing what his second, third and fourth seasons bring.

If there's no obvious improvement this time next year then it may well be time to part ways. But i certainly have the patience to get there.

--------------------------

Maybe another manager would have got more out of them, but it's a silly question because that's true for basically every team in the world, it ignores that many of the names you're thinking of might have done worse, and is irrelevant because Bloom decided to play a long game and 'get the most points possible in 24-25' clearly wasn't uppermost in his recruitment plans last summer. He wanted a development coach, and again, in that context Fab has done very well.

This is where I am at too. I think I we are in the overwhelming minority when it comes to the 'patience' part though.

But what's the alternative? Find another RDZ type who gets us an extra ten points next season and then fucks off to Chelsea at the first opportunity? What's the point?

 

[BadFish]

Self awareness is a wonderful thing. We are both dealing in absolutes

You think he is the messiah and i tend to think he is leaning towards a naughty boy

Question: do you believe he is getting the best out of what he has? I don't believe he is. And having seen all bar 5 games this season in person at the ground i am basing that on what we are doing both in and out of possession

Your suggestion that your opinion is better because you have seen more games than Kalmatian Gull is the basis for a brilliant idea.

Let's accept the premise and acknowledge that your experience Trumps his.

With this acknowledgment, we should also accept that your opinion is trumped by those who see Fab on the training ground every day and then at every match on the weekend.

Do you agree?

 

[Commander]

You were doing so well until the last line.

"Some people". Not everyone. Your comments on why you remain unconvinced are perfectly fair and reasonable. But I have read numerous times about how his demeanour is somehow why he isn't getting the best out of the players, from people who have absolutely no knowledge of what he is actually like as a Coach whatsoever. It's completely ridiculous. Personally I don't need the Manager of my football club to make me feel special, I couldn't care less, I just want him to get results. But a lot of people seem to require it.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Your suggestion that your opinion is better because you have seen more games than Kalmatian Gull is the basis for a brilliant idea.

Let's accept the premise and acknowledge that your experience Trumps his.

With this acknowledgment, we should also accept that your opinion is trumped by those who see Fab on the training ground every day and then at every match on the weekend.

Do you agree?

Haha! Not sure if the premise stands though, he said he had missed five games whereas I have watched every minute of every game, admittedly most from the safety of my couch at 2 in the morning with many beers inside me, but still!

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

This is where I am at too. I think I we are in the overwhelming minority when it comes to the 'patience' part though.

But what's the alternative? Find another RDZ type who gets us an extra ten points next season and then fucks off to Chelsea at the first opportunity? What's the point?

At the end of the day, the club will know by now if they made the right appointment or not. Bloom, Barber, Weir, Crofts, Dunk, the new German bloke, they will know.

 

[RandyWanger]

Fine, fine margins.

And this is what Bloom and the data nerds will see. We'd be mad to bin him off.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

I appreciate I might be coming across as the leader of the Fabian Hurzeler Appreciation Society, but it's really not that at all - I'm merely trying to present an alternative viewpoint to some of those being offered.

He may or may not be a good manager, he may or may not be the right manager for us right now, but if Mats Wieffer hadn't f***ed up *that* pass, If Igor hadn't tried *that* dribble, if our players were able to hit a cow's arse with a banjo at home to Southampton and Leicester we'd be sitting on the cusp of the Champions League places.

It would still be the same chaotic, lack of structure, no identity football that seems to be causing so much angst, but with a few less individual errors/bad decisions it would have us better placed than ever before.

And far fewer, possibly none, of these moans would be happening.

Fine, fine margins.

Fair.

And of course everyone would be happier.

But the issues would still exist and as you say it would still be chaotic, so you’d just be masking something that IMO is not right.

I think @Commander sums it up nicely around FH reflecting over the summer and being ready to move forward with hopefully a fully fit squad.

Charisma definitely is not a factor… He seems okay to me.

 

[dazzer6666]

Agree with this. Both the Wolves and Leicester games were almost perfect apart from those two calamitous errors. On the flip side of course the Everton away game, which we all look back now on as an easy romp, I remember us getting very lucky in the first few minutes and could easily have been a goal or two down and then a correct but perhaps lucky VAR overrule of the penalty award which changes the game. Football is chaos - no one knows anything and you always need a bit of luck and almost every game relies on a few moments going for or against you. Even that Arsenal v Real Madrid game recently that Arsenal fans describe as one of the best ever relied on two once in a lifetime free kicks to change the game. That said, I remain to be convinced that FH is the man to take us forward, I just haven't seen enough of what he's trying to do except "intensity" and frankly I haven't even seen enough of that. But again, I do wonder what he would have done with a fully fit squad and the cohesion and consistency that brings. It's a tricky one for TB.

Yep. I wouldn’t expect such a young manager to be able to convince many in his first PL season with a squad of mostly young players and further blighted by an unfortunate series of injuries which has prevented him having anything remotely like a settled XI or able to develop the so-important partnerships on the pitch.

I’m very much in #TeamPatience, but recognise he has a lot to learn. TB is very probably there too. Top 10 was my expectation at the start of the season - if he achieves that with all the obstacles he’s has then he’s done alright imo.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Your suggestion that your opinion is better because you have seen more games than Kalmatian Gull is the basis for a brilliant idea.

Let's accept the premise and acknowledge that your experience Trumps his.

With this acknowledgment, we should also accept that your opinion is trumped by those who see Fab on the training ground every day and then at every match on the weekend.

Do you agree?

I’d be worried if the chairman and owner pitched up to training sessions.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Haha! Not sure if the premise stands though, he said he had missed five games whereas I have watched every minute of every game, admittedly most from the safety of my couch at 2 in the morning with many beers inside me, but still!

TV is never the same, as you only get the camera angle not the wider perspective.

As for your many beers…. Disgusting