[Politics] A day that will live in infamy

[Frutos]

Our Falklands War: A Frontline Story: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0018c8n

Well worth a watch.

 

[Muhammad - I’m hard - Bruce Lee]

It may live in history but, even then, it only does so here and in Argentina. I very much doubt your average Dutchman or American could even tell you where the Falklands are, let alone that there was a war there and what the start date was.

To be fair, even as we sailed for the Falklands back then, half of US didn't know where they were

 

[Chicken Run]

To be fair, even as we sailed for the Falklands back then, half of US didn't know where they were

And you think British Sailors knew, I served alongside some South Atlantic Vets many who told me they thought these islands were in the Outer Hebrides

 

[Lenny Rider]

And won Mrs T a second term in 83.....

Then she sold the Council Houses and she got the Hat trick in 1987!

 

[Brovion]

And all this happened because Thatcher refused to take the advice of the military that 'her friends' in Argentina were about to invade.
They had tried it before when Callaghan was PM and he sent in the fleet and the Argies buggered off. Didn't even make the news.
Thatcher was a disgrace.

View attachment 199403

Correct. To look on the bright side the British victory did directly contribute to the collapse of a very nasty right-wing military dictatorship, and also, for once, a nation that tried to forcibly grab some land just because they thought it was theirs came unstuck. (Hope Putin suffers the same fate). Looking at it from that perspective it was very much a win for the Good Guys.

Having said that yes it was all easily avoidable. And yes we should definitely be in talks with the Argentinians about joint sovereignty at the very least. (Especially as we wouldn't even be able to fight a re-match, much less win it).

 

[jackanada]

And all this happened because Thatcher refused to take the advice of the military that 'her friends' in Argentina were about to invade.
They had tried it before when Callaghan was PM and he sent in the fleet and the Argies buggered off. Didn't even make the news.
Thatcher was a disgrace.

She demanded to be in 24 hour contact with the fleet. The admirals told her that those communications interfered with missile defence and scheduled communications would be better. She over ruled them.

On the subject of Exocets, and this I am less sure of, I believe the only reason there were surplus french missiles to be bought by Argentina was because we'd backed out of an agreement to buy them.

 

[beorhthelm]

Correct. To look on the bright side the British victory did directly contribute to the collapse of a very nasty right-wing military dictatorship, and also, for once, a nation that tried to forcibly grab some land just because they thought it was theirs came unstuck. (Hope Putin suffers the same fate). Looking at it from that perspective it was very much a win for the Good Guys.

Having said that yes it was all easily avoidable. And yes we should definitely be in talks with the Argentinians about joint sovereignty at the very least. (Especially as we wouldn't even be able to fight a re-match, much less win it).

why, have the islanders asked to be Argentine? has Argentina found a more credible claim to the islands than "it's nearest us"?

 

[South Stand Bonfire]

Although immediately prior to the Argentine invasion, British Ministers had been discussing ways of offloading the Falkland Islands, via shared sovereignty or a lease-back scheme with Buenos Aires.

Ah, the “Chelsea” option?

 

[MattBackHome]

Not really sure that the phrase 'a day that will live in infamy' is apposite here given a) it's obviously intrinsically linked to Pearl Harbour instead and b) it's evidently a day that has not lived on in infamy in any meaningful way.

I'm not particularly arsed about the Falklands either way, but absolutely AM a genuine admirer of your photography @shingle - keep it up and keep sharing!

 

[Eeyore]

And won Mrs T a second term in 83.....

Then she sold the Council Houses and she got the Hat trick in 1987!

Indeed. And the council stock wasn't replaced. And here we are with a huge housing crisis in which that played a huge part. It wasn't just her government mind.

 

[Eeyore]

And you think British Sailors knew, I served alongside some South Atlantic Vets many who told me they thought these islands were in the Outer Hebrides

I was 13, and when I was told I did ponder as to how they had got to Scotland unnoticed

 

[London Irish]

On this day, 43 years ago, Argentina invaded the Falklands.

saying.... The Islanders have a choice ,they can return to Britain (some of the people had been there for 8 or 9 generations) or become Argentine. Bearing in mind at the time, the Facist Argentine Junta had disappeared 30,000 of their own people, you could hardly blame the islanders for dismissing the second suggestion. Anyhow, our military forces liberated the islands some weeks later and restored the Islanders right to self determination.

For the same cost, you could have made every islander a millionaire and offered to relocate them to any similar farming community anywhere in the world -- or start a war that cost the lives of a thousand people because it would save an unpopular politician's neck. It's obvious nonsense to defend on the other side of the world the leftovers of war and conquest from centuries ago, that's the real infamy

 

[MattBackHome]

Should also add here that the whole thing reminds me of Adrian Mole:

"At tea-time I was looking at our world map, but I couldn’t see the Falkland Islands anywhere. My mother found them; they were hidden under a crumb of fruitcake."

"Got fifteen out of twenty for Geography. I lost points for saying that the Falkland Islands belonged to Argentina."

"10 AM. Woke my father up to tell him Argentina has invaded the Falklands. He shot out of bed because he thought the Falklands lay off the coast of Scotland. When I pointed out that they were eight thousand miles away he got back into bed and pulled the covers over his head."

 

[Lenny Rider]

Indeed. And the council stock wasn't replaced. And here we are with a huge housing crisis in which that played a huge part. It wasn't just her government mind.

Indeed, there all as bad as each other, another stat that gets overlooked, Labour closed more Coal Mines than the Tories.

Re the housing I read once that a number of marginal seats that had high levels of Council House sales were won by the Tories in 1987, funny that

 

[Thunder Bolt]

For the same cost, you could have made every islander a millionaire and offered to relocate them to any similar farming community anywhere in the world -- or start a war that cost the lives of a thousand people because it would save an unpopular politician's neck. It's obvious nonsense to defend on the other side of the world the leftovers of war and conquest from centuries ago, that's the real infamy

The Islanders themselves voted 99.9% to remain British. I doubt they'd want the money. Not everybody can be bought.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Correct. To look on the bright side the British victory did directly contribute to the collapse of a very nasty right-wing military dictatorship, and also, for once, a nation that tried to forcibly grab some land just because they thought it was theirs came unstuck. (Hope Putin suffers the same fate). Looking at it from that perspective it was very much a win for the Good Guys.

Having said that yes it was all easily avoidable. And yes we should definitely be in talks with the Argentinians about joint sovereignty at the very least. (Especially as we wouldn't even be able to fight a re-match, much less win it).

There cannot be joint sovereignty as the only claim Argentina has is they thought Spain left it to them.

The Falkland Islands were British before Argentina became a country. I have said this before on Nsc, that my StepMum was born there. My Dad sailed there three years in a row, 63-66 on the previous HMS Protector.
I not only knew where they were, but knew people in Port Stanley who were in danger.

 

[Whoislloydy]

I thought this was going to be a thread about Trump invading Greenland

 

[AmexRuislip]

The Falkland islanders are a proud bunch and still to this day want a UK connection.
I know there is someone on NSC that is down there, but can't recall who

 

[WATFORD zero]

To be fair, even as we sailed for the Falklands back then, half of US didn't know where they were

I woke up, heard the news on the radio and told my then girlfriend I thought they were somewhere North of Scotland. I reckon 90% of the British population had no idea.

The Islanders themselves voted 99.9% to remain British. I doubt they'd want the money. Not everybody can be bought.

Gibraltar voted 96% to remain in the EU

 

[Eeyore]

Correct. To look on the bright side the British victory did directly contribute to the collapse of a very nasty right-wing military dictatorship, and also, for once, a nation that tried to forcibly grab some land just because they thought it was theirs came unstuck. (Hope Putin suffers the same fate). Looking at it from that perspective it was very much a win for the Good Guys.

Having said that yes it was all easily avoidable. And yes we should definitely be in talks with the Argentinians about joint sovereignty at the very least. (Especially as we wouldn't even be able to fight a re-match, much less win it).

I'm pretty sure that's not the case now. The Argentines wouldn't even make it within 100 miles of the Falklands with the advanced radar systems, missile systems, bomber ranges etc. I'd say the UK was in a far more perilous situation in 1982 when the government only found out once someone had taken their periscope for a walk.