[News] A woman is a woman.

[DJ NOBO]

To be fair to @DJ NOBO if your reaction to the above is a laughing emoji then we're unlikely to find agreement on what constitutes being 'anti-trans' or could be considered as spreading hatred.

Sorry pocketseagull, I was just stunned by your post. Still am. But fair enough , ill remove the emoji

 

[fly high]

A trans women in a refuge would have also been abused. They could have also been raped.

I 100% agree but women who have no problem with them being in the same space but if they find it threatening the should be entitled to expect to be able to have an alternative women only space.

 

[beorhthelm]

This is where it started for JK Rowling five years ago:



I'm not on Twitter, so I can't see the replies, but my understanding is that she may well have received some stick for that post, so that may well have coloured her interactions with some activists subsequently.

some stick is a massive understatement, obviously didn't care for it and she went on to bait that militant trans group, that have taken the bait ever since.

 

[Freddo]

Long article. I wouldn’t call it evidence . Can’t see anything about her hating trans people for being trans, presuming that’s what transphobic means . biological Men claiming they are women - she does hate that , obviously . And biological men in Women’s spaces - yes, she hates that.

Long article because there’s a lot of evidence. It really doesn’t take much empathy to put yourself in the shoes of a transwoman for one moment, to deduce that her posts to her millions of followers is denying their existence and cannot be anything other than “anti trans”. I think you’re just arguing in bad faith now.

 

[Littlemo]

Long article. I wouldn’t call it evidence . Can’t see anything about her hating trans people for being trans, presuming that’s what transphobic means . biological Men claiming they are women - she does hate that , obviously . And biological men in Women’s spaces - yes, she hates that.

Writing a book about a man dressing up as a woman and being a serial killer? I suggest you read it, long as it is because it shows what I’ve been trying to say.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The thing about JK Rowling is that she’s become almost a professional platformer, by that I mean she uses her platform on social media to like, retweet etc the horrible stuff other people say, without putting it directly into words herself and then gets offended when she gets called out for it.

She already had form for doing this during the Scottish independence referendum. Promoted and tweeted hateful content from unionist accounts and then screamed about being abused when she got called out by others. It’s wrong whatever your opinion is on the referendum.

Similarly she attends rallies etc up here that are really very transphobic but it’s others doing it, not her, so she tries to maintain some plausible deniability. She is a throughly nasty, sly, piece of work.

Thanks for that. It certainly explains why Mrs T doesn't like her.
Careless (or willfully insouciant) retweeting is a bad look.
I shall recalibrate my perspective

 

[DJ NOBO]

I didn’t say she was afraid, she says what she wants to say but she’s happy to promote the hatred of others. No it’s not the opposite of the truth, I’ve watched it happen more than once

I would say she is an incredibly articulate, amusing and intelligent woman, who believes in what she says and stands by what she says. I don’t agree she is sly and think she has done a lot of good.
I can understand why some might think she just hates trans people, as that’s the way the world works. I don’t believe that to be the case, if I did I wouldn’t have any time for her.

 

[DJ NOBO]

Long article because there’s a lot of evidence. It really doesn’t take much empathy to put yourself in the shoes of a transwoman for one moment, to deduce that her posts to her millions of followers is denying their existence and cannot be anything other than “anti trans”. I think you’re just arguing in bad faith now.

What do you mean by anti trans? Genuine question. It can mean anything from an old school queer basher who just hates trannies to a vulnerable woman concerned about who is with her in the room when she gets changed.

 

[Littlemo]

Thanks for that. It certainly explains why Mrs T doesn't like her.
Careless (or willfully insouciant) retweeting is a bad look.
I shall recalibrate my perspective

Yes, I also recommend the article posted, it has quite a comprehensive look at it tbf.

If it were just this subject, or just the independence debate that she had done this in, I’d be inclined to think she’d just gone too far in her enthusiasm for the subject. Getting involved this way twice though is much more like it’s becoming a hobby for her.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

TBH I'm not massively knowledgeable on her so have had to resort to wiki and it's not great.


I mean, the above pretty much invalidates the actual lived experience of trans people I know.

I think these both cross the line from concerned person to actual bigotry.

Thanks for that. I agree with you. As noted above, recalibration ongoing.

I just wish that the gaslighting that has also gone on would cease.

I like to use Brexit as a metaphor.
There may well be good reasons to have left the EU,
but muddying the waters with daft claims is unhelpful.
The same applies to some remainer narratives too, of course.

And ironically, when people attempt nuance they get called out for being wishy washy.
Vide Starmer on his failure to go into unequivocal war with Trump.
People seem to prefer a clean narrative, even when it is inaccurate.

 

[beorhthelm]

Because trans people will say they knew from an early age that they were trans. She is denying that. The further implication of trans as being an 'ideology' as opposed to innate is the same arguments people made in support of section 28.

the main point there is children, teenagers, dont really know themselves. we had people telling them yep you're in the wrong body, here's some chemicals to change puberty and we'll book you in for some surgery. it has turned into an ideology for some. there are harrowing stories of teens being pursuaded to change by peer groups, then later realised they weren't in wrong body after all.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Yes, I also recommend the article posted, it has quite a comprehensive look at it tbf.

If it were just this subject, or just the independence debate that she had done this in, I’d be inclined to think she’d just gone too far in her enthusiasm for the subject. Getting involved this way twice though is much more like it’s becoming a hobby for her.

Indeed. I am now having visions of Delia and her drink-informed hyperbole...

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

the main point was children dont really know themselves. we had people telling them yep your in the wrong body, here's some chemicals to change puberty and we'll book you in for some surgery. it has turned into an ideology for some. there are harrowing stories of teens being pursuaded to change by peer groups, then later realised they weren't in wrong body after all.

That may be correct (safety first with kids) but that does not justify anyone saying that being trans is a lifestyle choice.

 

[DJ NOBO]

Writing a book about a man dressing up as a woman and being a serial killer? I suggest you read it, long as it is because it shows what I’ve been trying to say.

Ive never read any of her books and never heard of that book.
I don’t question your plot synopsis but is a fictional book really more evidence?

 

[DJ NOBO]

Thanks for that. I agree with you. As noted above, recalibration ongoing.

I just wish that the gaslighting that has also gone on would cease.

I like to use Brexit as a metaphor.
There may well be good reasons to have left the EU,
but muddying the waters with daft claims is unhelpful.
The same applies to some remainer narratives too, of course.

And ironically, when people attempt nuance they get called out for being wishy washy.
Vide Starmer on his failure to go into unequivocal war with Trump.
People seem to prefer a clean narrative, even when it is inaccurate.

TBH Harry, I was a bit surprised she wasn’t on your bad list already.
Spoiler alert - You won’t like her!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Exactly this. JK Rowling may not be everyone‘s cup of tea but there is no evidence that she hates trans people. She just doesn’t buy into the idea that transwomen are actually women, and by extension doesn’t believe transwomen should have access to women‘s only spaces. She is not alone.
As a term “Anti trans“ suggests the prime motivation is a hatred of trans people. This is not the case for all but a very small bigoted minority.

I am now not persuaded that it is so straightforward.

@Littlemo and @pocketseagull have posted some informative commentary.

I think JKR has been gaslighted but on the other hand she has also appeared to back some odd notions.

 

[Littlemo]

I would say she is an incredibly articulate, amusing and intelligent woman, who believes in what she says and stands by what she says. I don’t agree she is sly and think she has done a lot of good.
I can understand why some might think she just hates trans people, as that’s the way the world works. I don’t believe that to be the case, if I did I wouldn’t have any time for her.

You don’t think it’s an issue she posted all that stuff about the Olympic boxer Khelif, who was never a trans woman? At best Khelif was accused of being intersex, which is a completely different thing.

Yet Rowling posted online about “him” enjoying punching a woman in the head. I utterly can’t fathom how you could defend that or consider her harmlessly defending women’s rights.

I’ll add, I am a woman and complete ***** like her will never speak for me.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

TBH Harry, I was a bit surprised she wasn’t on your bad list already.
Spoiler alert - You won’t like her!

Love the books and films. They reveal a sense of humanity and kindness.
I have always kept the 'artist' and the 'art' separate as best I can.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You don’t think it’s an issue she posted all that stuff about the Olympic boxer Khelif, who was never a trans woman? At best Khelif was accused of being intersex, which is a completely different thing.

Yet Rowling posted online about “him” enjoying punching a woman in the head. I utterly can’t fathom how you could defend that or consider her harmlessly defending women’s rights.

I’ll add, I am a woman and complete ***** like her will never speak for me.

Jumping on the back of Khelif seems very foolish given her other stances.

Again, as an analogy man, the first think that pops into my head is the black rights journalist calling out BHA
as racists for sacking Chris Hughton.

The temptation to conflate and see patterns that don't exist is a human failing.
I admit I do it all the time.
In my job it allows me to concoct a hypothesis and then test it to destruction.
In social discourse it can be foolish and even dangerous.

 

[Littlemo]

Love the books and films. They reveal a sense of humanity and kindness.
I have always kept the 'artist' and the 'art' separate as best I can.

I loved the Harry Potter films and books as well. As you say, art and artist.