[Politics] Are Labour going to turn this country around?

[Bodian]

Why? He has lost the voter completely?

The right wing press tell you he has lost the voters.

Amongst voters I know - most are a little frustrated with the PR, but in general feel that he's taking difficult decisions and cannot possibly sort out 14 years of crap in six-months. Especially as the shitstorm was pump-primed by the Tories in the run up to the election (for instance, taking 2p off NIC - therefore needing Labour to put it back on again, but on employer rather than employee, and other such 'tricks').

 

[drew]

I was no fan of Boris Johnson and the rest of the then government but they didn't really have a manual to read from when Covid came round. There does need to be a proper inquiry as to what worked and what didn't at the time so we know better for next time.

Fully agree about not making promises in opposition you can't keep.

No, they had SAGE and apparently frequently ignored their recommendations.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I was no fan of Boris Johnson and the rest of the then government but they didn't really have a manual to read from when Covid came round. There does need to be a proper inquiry as to what worked and what didn't at the time so we know better for next time.

Fully agree about not making promises in opposition you can't keep.

Operation Cygnus in October 2016 was about handling a pandemic, but was largely ignored, as were three Cobra meetings at the beginning of 2020, when Johnson was enjoying his freebie Caribbean holiday.

 

[AlbionBro]

The right wing press tell you he has lost the voters.

Amongst voters I know - most are a little frustrated with the PR, but in general feel that he's taking difficult decisions and cannot possibly sort out 14 years of crap in six-months. Especially as the shitstorm was pump-primed by the Tories in the run up to the election (for instance, taking 2p off NIC - therefore needing Labour to put it back on again, but on employer rather than employee, and other such 'tricks').

Does it? I saw it in a poll on the web somewhere. I think they had Labour and Reform on twenty five.
I assume you're not a poor pensioner, and want to turn your head regarding Keirs hypocrisy? I thought he was straight and honest, he is unfortunately the same as others that have frequented no 10.
I have lost my patience and trust with him.
I also want a national inquiry on the grooming gangs, those poor kids, the Tories should have done it too, but labour not doing is also unforgivably, it feels like Jess is putting politics ahead of the people. Just like Keir said they would not.
I understand many of the MPs are not backing him and at some point will make a stand.

 

[Bodian]

Does it? I saw it in a poll on the web somewhere. I think they had Labour and Reform on twenty five.
I assume you're not a poor pensioner, and want to turn your head regarding Keirs hypocrisy? I thought he was straight and honest, he is unfortunately the same as others that have frequented no 10.
I have lost my patience and trust with him.
I also want a national inquiry on the grooming gangs, those poor kids, the Tories should have done it too, but labour not doing is also unforgivably, it feels like Jess is putting politics ahead of the people. Just like Keir said they would not.
I understand many of the MPs are not backing him and at some point will make a stand.

So - who do you want as leader then? Who is going to do all you want?

 

[Rdodge30]

So - who do you want as leader then? Who is going to do all you want?

Heaven only knows. I’m on record here before the election saying I thought Rachel Reeves would be a good chancellor because of her background in economics and that Keir Starmer would be a good Prime Minister, so I’m baffled at how badly it’s gone and how quickly. I think if there is a challenge for the leadership then Streeting will be a front runner but Yvette Cooper annd Ed Milliband are the ones with the most experience but maybe young and energetic is what’s called for.

For all the shouting on here about the Tories and the last 14 years etc etc if this government doesn’t change direction it’s inevitable the leaders will be replaced

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Does it? I saw it in a poll on the web somewhere. I think they had Labour and Reform on twenty five.
I assume you're not a poor pensioner, and want to turn your head regarding Keirs hypocrisy? I thought he was straight and honest, he is unfortunately the same as others that have frequented no 10.
I have lost my patience and trust with him.
I also want a national inquiry on the grooming gangs, those poor kids, the Tories should have done it too, but labour not doing is also unforgivably, it feels like Jess is putting politics ahead of the people. Just like Keir said they would not.
I understand many of the MPs are not backing him and at some point will make a stand.

I’m sure you’ve read this before, but the Tories did have a national enquiry, started by Theresa May in 2015, when she was Home Secretary. It concluded in 2022. That is now being acted on, plus the Bill on safeguarding children had its second reading last week, surviving the attempted hijacking of a strange amendment from the Conservatives & Reform.

Btw, just an aside 12 Reform councillors have resigned their Reform ‘membership‘, citing Farage as being too authoritarian.

 

[AlbionBro]

So - who do you want as leader then? Who is going to do all you want?

I don't know, who we can trust. Do you have anyone in particular that you would prefer?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Heaven only knows. I’m on record here before the election saying I thought Rachel Reeves would be a good chancellor because of her background in economics and that Keir Starmer would be a good Prime Minister, so I’m baffled at how badly it’s gone and how quickly. I think if there is a challenge for the leadership then Streeting will be a front runner but Yvette Cooper are the ones with the most experience but maybe young and energetic is what’s called for.

For all the shouting on here about the Tories and the last 14 years etc etc if this government doesn’t change direction it’s inevitable the leaders will be replaced

So i'm guessing you'd describe yourself as a centrist

 

[Bodian]

I don't know, who we can trust. Do you have anyone in particular that you would prefer?

No - as I said, I'm not hugely unhappy with Starmer.

 

[Rdodge30]

So i'm guessing you'd describe yourself as a centrist

You spend more time commenting on the people on these threads than you do about the subject!

 

[GloryDays]

Just been confirmed that RR will remain for this Parliament, fantastic news.

I think this is like when a chairman of a club backs a manager. RR is basically on her way out.

 

[Commander]

I was no fan of Boris Johnson and the rest of the then government but they didn't really have a manual to read from when Covid came round. There does need to be a proper inquiry as to what worked and what didn't at the time so we know better for next time.

Fully agree about not making promises in opposition you can't keep.

They absolutely did. Or if they didn't, they absolutely should have done. How can a Government, who's job it is to keep its population safe, not know what do in a pandemic!? Pandemics have happened consistently throughout human history, and will continue to do so.

 

[Hugo Rune]

They absolutely did. Or if they didn't, they absolutely should have done. How can a Government, who's job it is to keep its population safe, not know what do in a pandemic!? Pandemics have happened consistently throughout human history, and will continue to do so.

It was the highest risk on the risk register for the country. I imagine the same sort of people who don’t bother turning up for Cobra Meetings about possible pandemics are the same sort that say this of thing…

In later notes from December 2020, Sir Patrick wrote that Mr Johnson said his party "thinks the whole thing is pathetic and Covid is just nature's way of dealing with old people - and I am not entirely sure I disagree with them".

Yes - this was a huge crisis for the Country, but perhaps out of all the PMs in the last few centuries, only Truss could have had a chance of ****ing it up as much as Boris ‘the trolley’ Johnson. He was never fit to be an MP yet alone a PM.

 

[Weststander]

They absolutely did. Or if they didn't, they absolutely should have done. How can a Government, who's job it is to keep its population safe, not know what do in a pandemic!? Pandemics have happened consistently throughout human history, and will continue to do so.

There was a 100 year gap since the last one to hurt the developed world, leading to a lack of real practice and complacency, across most high population density countries.

 

[ROSM]

There was a 100 year gap since the last one to hurt the developed world, leading to a lack of real practice and complacency, across most high population density countries.

Govts have pandemic stress tests. In 2016 the UK govt ran theirs on 'an airborne flu like (h2n2) pandemic causing respiratory tract complications'. It was named Swan Flu so the exercise was called operation Cygnus (latin for swan)

The failings showed that the UK health system wouldn't cope and that there was a shortage of ventilators. It is believed this is what caused the herd immunity approach to be adopted initially in the covid pandemic

The findings weren't properly worked up so that when covid hit, public health referred the handbook drawn up after the 2011 stress test

 

[Weststander]

Govts have pandemic stress tests. In 2016 the UK govt ran theirs on 'an airborne flu like (h2n2) pandemic causing respiratory tract complications'. It was named Swan Flu so the exercise was called operation Cygnus (latin for swan)

The failings showed that the UK health system wouldn't cope and that there was a shortage of ventilators. It is believed this is what caused the herd immunity approach to be adopted initially in the covid pandemic

The findings weren't properly worked up so that when covid hit, public health referred the handbook drawn up after the 2011 stress test

We‘re in great company, despite all that. The Economist data was championed by James O’Brien throughout the pandemic. I’d be interested to know why health systems and governments at that time admired from the UK, delivered similar per capita death stats. Netherlands, Portugal, Germany, Spain and Italy. Please note that I agree about the NHS, many key aspects such as A&E, intensive care, lack of ventilators, lack of spare beds …. woefully inadequate for the UK demographic in 2020. I like to look beyond these shores, an interest in the wider world.

Theories … high population density countries were vulnerable, major airport hubs at the very start, even excellent test n trace simply overwhelmed in the end, intransigence on sanctioning the first vaccines?

Off image, Germany 407.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

There was a 100 year gap since the last one to hurt the developed world, leading to a lack of real practice and complacency, across most high population density countries.

Granted there was a long gap between pandemics, but every twenty years or so, there are epidemics. I can remember Hong Kong flu, and Asian flu, being quite ill with both. All governments are supposed to know how to manage them, and, has already been pointed out, twice in this thread, the Tories were warned after Operation Cygnus in 2016.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

We‘re in great company, despite all that. The Economist data was championed by James O’Brien throughout the pandemic. I’d be interested to know why health systems and governments at that time admired from the UK, delivered similar per capita death stats. Netherlands, Portugal, Germany, Spain and Italy. Please note that I agree about the NHS, many key aspects such as A&E, intensive care, lack of ventilators, lack of spare beds …. woefully inadequate for the UK demographic in 2020. I like to look beyond these shores, an interest in the wider world.

Theories … high population density countries were vulnerable, major airport hubs at the very start, even excellent test n trace simply overwhelmed in the end, intransigence on sanctioning the first vaccines?

View attachment 195088
Off image, Germany 407.

Good points. Albeit looking at total deaths per whatever, we seem to be dropping like flies here in total deaths.
Is that because we, er. live so long and have so many old people who are now dying of all sorts?
Statistics....

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

Looks like Austerity 2.0 is in the pipeline. Labour will be blamed though not really their fault: