[Albion] Arsenal fans

[jackanada]

I understand precision and accuracy.

How much over 50 MPH do you have to be to constitute speeding?

View attachment 188382

HMG makes no such claims so in theory you could be done for doing 30.01 MPH in a 30 zone.

So, people of NSC, what is the smallest number of MPH over a limit that has triggered police action (fine or fine and points)? In my case at least 10% plus 2 mph.

Sakes Harry.
As Hürzeler said wrt kicking balls away they're entirely different situations.
Yes most speed cameras are set at 10%+ 2. There isn't actually any reason for this except that when they put in the first generation cameras that had actual film that needed to be collected in they first set them at 5mph over and they ran out of film about 2 minutes later.
You've been done by average speed cameras. So firstly the time and distance are both relatively large so your calculated speed is incredibly accurate.
Secondly no allowance needs to be made that you could possibly be mid overtake or just briefly didn't notice your speed or whatever.
You drove for a considerable time above the speed limit, and given speedos usually read higher than your actual speed you probably saw 60 on your speedo and carried on.

 

[London Irish]

So what fan base are we having major beef with next week - never stops on here. Can’t we have an organised break of sorts

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I understand precision and accuracy.

How much over 50 MPH do you have to be to constitute speeding?

View attachment 188382

HMG makes no such claims so in theory you could be done for doing 30.01 MPH in a 30 zone.

So, people of NSC, what is the smallest number of MPH over a limit that has triggered police action (fine or fine and points)? In my case at least 10% plus 2 mph.

I'm pretty sure a policeman could get you or let you off for various forms of dangerous or inattentive driving at any speed.

Which is probably more relevant to the totting up idea than getting done by a speed camera.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I understand precision and accuracy.

How much over 50 MPH do you have to be to constitute speeding?

View attachment 188382

HMG makes no such claims so in theory you could be done for doing 30.01 MPH in a 30 zone.

So, people of NSC, what is the smallest number of MPH over a limit that has triggered police action (fine or fine and points)? In my case at least 10% plus 2 mph.

I got three points, years ago, for 34 in a 30. So, within your suggested ‘tolerance’.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Sakes Harry.
As Hürzeler said wrt kicking balls away they're entirely different situations.
Yes most speed cameras are set at 10%+ 2. There isn't actually any reason for this except that when they put in the first generation cameras that had actual film that needed to be collected in they first set them at 5mph over and they ran out of film about 2 minutes later.
You've been done by average speed cameras. So firstly the time and distance are both relatively large so your calculated speed is incredibly accurate.
Secondly no allowance needs to be made that you could possibly be mid overtake or just briefly didn't notice your speed or whatever.
You drove for a considerable time above the speed limit, and given speedos usually read higher than your actual speed you probably saw 60 on your speedo and carried on.

That's an eloquent explanation. I forgot about the averaging aspect.

Yes. Bang to rights. It's a fair cop. I'll come quietly officer.

 

[Baldseagull]

I just got done for doing 57 in a 50 zone, by speed averaging cameras.

I have tried to get the record but I get bounced. If they have rounded it up to 57 I would argue that I was below the '10% plus 2' rubric, given we are talking about precise thresholds for an offence to become an 'offence'. Rounding up from 56.5 to 57 is no more legitimate than rounding it up to 60. Or 100. If they claim their measurement is extremely precise then they definitely shouldn't round up.

Anyway your analogy is not quite right.

A 3 point offense and a ban are like thruppeny bits and a shilling.

What I am complaining about is four lots of 0, 1 or 2 pennies apparently making a shilling.

If we accept a totting up process, what is the rubric? I suggest it is the 'judgement' (aka whim) of the referee. Boo. BOO! Boo.

(Good discussion this.)

Yes, it is the whim of the referee. The reason Sidwell got away with a lot, was because he always smiled at the ref when pleading his innocence. The reason Veltman gets away with a lot, is he is always controlled, the ref never feels he has to calm him down.
There is a responsibility on the referee to control the game, hot heads need a bit more calming down, and won't get away with as much as the player that is calm, but still a bit dirty when it's good for the team.

With motoring offences, cameras can't be sweet talked, so you get your points and fine, but I have been succesful in pleas for leniency with some Police Officers.
And no, I didn't need to decide whether to spit or swallow in return for leniency.

Totting up is saying, you have not heeded the warning, so here is the real punishment.

 

[Baldseagull]

I got three points, years ago, for 34 in a 30. So, within your suggested ‘tolerance’.

It's a bugger, speeding is speeding, and anything over is an offence. Usually speed cameras in a 30 won't trigger below 35, but sometimes larger vehicles will trigger it. We're you in a van?
Or was it a copper in a hi-vis trying to hide behind a lamppost? He might have just not had many customers and thought he would have you.

 

[Baldseagull]

That's an eloquent explanation. I forgot about the averaging aspect.

Yes. Bang to rights. It's a fair cop. I'll come quietly officer.

If you can be bothered, you may be able to find fault in the signage, telling you the speed limit, or telling you an average speed check system is in place.
Unless you are close to a totting up ban, probably not worth the effort or time in court to argue it.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Yes, it is the whim of the referee. The reason Sidwell got away with a lot, was because he always smiled at the ref when pleading his innocence. The reason Veltman gets away with a lot, is he is always controlled, the ref never feels he has to calm him down.
There is a responsibility on the referee to control the game, hot heads need a bit more calming down, and won't get away with as much as the player that is calm, but still a bit dirty when it's good for the team.

With motoring offences, cameras can't be sweet talked, so you get your points and fine, but I have been succesful in pleas for leniency with some Police Officers.
And no, I didn't need to decide whether to spit or swallow in return for leniency.

Totting up is saying, you have not heeded the warning, so here is the real punishment.

Very good. It makes sense when you explain it.

I suspect it is the fact I often can't see nuance unless it is explained to me that has helped me ask awkward questions in my job. Ah well. Cheers

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

If you can be bothered, you may be able to find fault in the signage, telling you the speed limit, or telling you an average speed check system is in place.
Unless you are close to a totting up ban, probably not worth the effort or time in court to argue it.

I just checked. I did an awareness course on 24 Sept 21, and this 'expires' 3.5 years later so I'll be collecting 3 points. Never mind. Serves me right for being an arrogant prick.

 

[Baldseagull]

I was told once, by someone who should know, that Traffic Police on the Motorway travel at 60 to 65 mph, because if they travel at 70mph, most people won't overtake them, and traffic will back up behind them.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I was told once, by someone who should know, that Traffic Police on the Motorway travel at 60 to 65 mph, because if they travel at 70mph, most people won't overtake them, and traffic will back up behind them.

I can buy that, but I'd also guess their fuel economy is better at that speed which probably comes into it.

 

[ChickenBaltiPie]

re the 10% tolerance built into speed cameras, it’s not a myth. It is/was (in older cameras) a deliberate tolerance due to variation in the calibration of both the measurement of speed by the cameras sensor(s) and the enormous variety of vehicles and the accuracy of their speedo. A number of factors can influence the reliability of a Speedo in older cars and the sensors in the camera. Police mobile cameras needed to be calibrated regularly and I once got off on a technicality because the police officer that stopped me could not provide proof of calibration (which had to be done at regular intervals) that officers were required to carry proving their guns accuracy.

It is amazing the tangents these threads go off on haha

Anyway, courtesy of my Arsenal supporting mate a moment ago, that has not stopped bombarding me with b0llocks since approx 17:30 on Saturday haha

 

[smillie's garden]

So what fan base are we having major beef with next week - never stops on here. Can’t we have an organised break of sorts

ITFC up next. Word is their fans have been working on a follow-up credit card related banner for about a decade. (Tractor) Boy, is it going to be a zinger.

 

[oldboyroy]

Talked again for the 1567th time on sports bar last night where an Arsenal fan and semi pro referee agreed the decision was spot on despite Jamie O'hara still arguing that the ref should of used common sense and NOT sent Rice off!!. At least Cundy mocked the Arsenal fans for still going on about it 4 days later

 

[Wozza]

re the 10% tolerance built into speed cameras, it’s not a myth. It is/was (in older cameras) a deliberate tolerance due to variation in the calibration of both the measurement of speed by the cameras sensor(s) and the enormous variety of vehicles and the accuracy of their speedo. A number of factors can influence the reliability of a Speedo in older cars and the sensors in the camera. Police mobile cameras needed to be calibrated regularly and I once got off on a technicality because the police officer that stopped me could not provide proof of calibration that officers were required to carry proving their guns accuracy.

It is amazing the tangents these threads go off on haha

Anyway, courtesy of my Arsenal supporting mate a moment ago, that has not stopped bombarding me with b0llocks since approx 17:30 on Saturday haha

Arsenal fans finding ‘similar’ (not similar) examples from 2021. Pretty funny.

 

[Gwylan]

If we accept a totting up process, what is the rubric? I suggest it is the 'judgement' (aka whim) of the referee. Boo. BOO! Boo.

(Good discussion this.)

I don't know about football but in rugby that's exactly what it is. I actually asked on my ref's course how many offences before I take action and the course giver said "That's entirely up to you".

It's stressed over again that as a ref you are in sole charge of what happens on the field and a lot of it is your judgment. If football refs are told the same, you can't really complain about a totting up process

 

[Mo Gosfield]

So what fan base are we having major beef with next week - never stops on here. Can’t we have an organised break of sorts

Very difficult when nearly a third of the PL is represented by an elite group of clubs that have developed enormous support globally and are regarded as the life blood by broadcasters who pump millions into the game.
As a result, you get self-entitled fans who struggle to accept not winning. They then fall into a default position of either stating that they were shite on the day ( no credit to the opposition ) or that officialdom are against them or that their opponents were alllowed to practice dark arts.
The majority of Arsenal fans expected to win on Saturday. They were looking beyond Brighton at home, to Tottenham and Man City away. Fans of the Greedy Six do this all the time. Disrespecting any of the other 12 -14 clubs and only regarding other big six teams as difficult opponents.
They live in a bubble and the real joy in football is pricking that pretentious bubble.

 

[Gwylan]

As a result, you get self-entitled fans who struggle to accept not winning. They then fall into a default position of either stating that they were shite on the day ( no credit to the opposition ) or that officialdom are against them or that their opponents were alllowed to practice dark arts.
The majority of Arsenal fans expected to win on Saturday. They were looking beyond Brighton at home, to Tottenham and Man City away. Fans of the Greedy Six do this all the time. Disrespecting any of the other 12 -14 clubs and only regarding other big six teams as difficult opponents.
They live in a bubble and the real joy in football is pricking that pretentious bubble.

I think this is it. And I think it particularly applies to London clubs: Arsenal and Chelsea (Tottenham, not so much). These two seem to attract a bunch of entitled whiners - most of whom seem to know very little about football but want the kudos of being attached to a successful club. Anything that gets in the way of that "success" is seen as an irritant

 

[mrjon1976]

so now 4 days after the game, I see that some Arsenal fans are resorting to sharing old clips of other "comparable" incidents to try and prove their point, forgetting that the rules have been changed in the interim.....

I have truly never seen a headloss like it in my life - rattled isn't even the word for it.