[Albion] Calde and the U18s

[Zeberdi]

Maybe the mods can set up a new section of the forum where @Guinness Boy can give his opinions on other things he has not watched/seen or have any knowledge about?

I know absolutely nothing about our U18s or Calde’s coaching abilities (and not seen them play either) like a lot of other NSCers - so the questions raised in the OP are really interesting imo. Surely it is legitimate to ask whether the poor outcome of matches is due to transient availability of players or particular coaching issues for example, or just whether it is just the nature of academy football?

The concept of development over match results is interesting and can also see why being at the wrong end of a thrashing might wisely ‘harden’ the emotional sensibilities to competitive football too. Isn’t a momentary sense of pride and self-satisfaction from being part of the winning team when you win a match also part of the mental development for teenage football too though? Isn’t individual self-confidence that can come from being good competitively one of the drivers for being successful in a talent based career choice at any level of the game?

Maybe team success in competitive matches is not an important part of mental development at that age - like I say, I know absolutely nothing about our U18s or Calde’s coaching ability so an interesting topic of discussion …

 

[Weststander]

I know absolutely nothing about our U18s or Calde’s coaching abilities (and not seen them play either) like a lot of other NSCers - so the questions raised in the OP are really interesting imo. Surely it is legitimate to ask whether the poor outcome of matches is due to transient availability of players or particular coaching issues for example, or just whether it is just the nature of academy football?

The concept of development over match results is interesting and can also see why being at the wrong end of a thrashing might wisely ‘harden’ the emotional sensibilities to competitive football too. Isn’t a momentary sense of pride and self-satisfaction from being part of the winning team when you win a match also part of the mental development for teenage football too though? Isn’t individual self-confidence that can come from being good competitively one of the drivers for being successful in a talent based career choice at any level of the game?

Maybe team success in competitive matches is not an important part of mental development at that age - like I say, I know absolutely nothing about our U18s or Calde’s coaching ability so an interesting topic of discussion …

@GB started an interesting discussion worth having.

 

[peterward]

Maybe the mods can set up a new section of the forum where @Guinness Boy can give his opinions on other things he has not watched/seen or have any knowledge about?

I think that is a lazy comment and paints a false narrative.

My own son is an U9's team, where there is no league table published, no player stats etc, its all about player development too.

They were moved up 2 leagues in summer and first 10 games this season they were getting hammered each week often by 5+ goals, even if control and passing improves, its utterly demoralising, confidence draining and 1 kid left for another team. But that was against better opposition and not teams below who hadnt won all season. That's since rectified by dropping 1 div where they're competitive.

Our U18s will all have big dreams, certain levels of talent and be desperate for a new contract at the next level. Is that talent being showcased with a hammering by a team that hasn't won a game all season? Are those midfielders and strikers developing in such games?, is their confidence/ability increasing their overall development in such situations?

I don't have the answers and it's not my remit, but anyone who goes onto a sporting field, at any level, does so to try and showcase their ability, improve and to win however irrelevant that win is. If theyre getting consistently tonked or losing games against another 11 they'd believe they should be better than or expected to beat, it will still have a negative impact. Confidence improves performance.

To ask a simple open question about any of the above is perfectly reasonable imho.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I think that is a lazy comment and paints a false narrative.

My own son is an U9's team, where there is no league table published, no player stats etc, its all about player development too.

They were moved up 2 leagues in summer and first 10 games this season they were getting hammered each week often by 5+ goals, even if control and passing improves, its utterly demoralising, confidence draining and 1 kid left for another team. But that was against better opposition and not teams below who hadnt won all season. That's since rectified by dropping 1 div where they're competitive.

Our U18s will all have big dreams, certain levels of talent and be desperate for a new contract at the next level. Is that talent being showcased with a hammering by a team that hasn't won a game all season? Are those midfielders and strikers developing in such games?, is their confidence/ability increasing their overall development in such situations?

I don't have the answers and it's not my remit, but anyone who goes onto a sporting field, at any level, does so to try and showcase their ability, improve and to win however irrelevant that win is. If theyre getting consistently tonked or losing games against another 11 they'd believe they should be better than or expected to beat, it will still have a negative impact. Confidence improves performance.

To ask a simple open question about any of the above is perfectly reasonable imho.

My own son is the same age as some of those players and knows several who’ve been through the academy at some point either from school or local football. His claim I “have no knowledge” is hilarious.

 

[American Seagle]

I think that is a lazy comment and paints a false narrative.

My own son is an U9's team, where there is no league table published, no player stats etc, its all about player development too.

They were moved up 2 leagues in summer and first 10 games this season they were getting hammered each week often by 5+ goals, even if control and passing improves, its utterly demoralising, confidence draining and 1 kid left for another team. But that was against better opposition and not teams below who hadnt won all season. That's since rectified by dropping 1 div where they're competitive.

Our U18s will all have big dreams, certain levels of talent and be desperate for a new contract at the next level. Is that talent being showcased with a hammering by a team that hasn't won a game all season? Are those midfielders and strikers developing in such games?, is their confidence/ability increasing their overall development in such situations?

I don't have the answers and it's not my remit, but anyone who goes onto a sporting field, at any level, does so to try and showcase their ability, improve and to win however irrelevant that win is. If theyre getting consistently tonked or losing games against another 11 they'd believe they should be better than or expected to beat, it will still have a negative impact. Confidence improves performance.

To ask a simple open question about any of the above is perfectly reasonable imho.

That's a good response. You have clearly thought about it. The OP just wrote a click bait post with no thought. The kids deserve to be discussed in a more adult manner as you have.
But the OP does have history of personal attacks and such like this. I know myself as "no one will miss me if I go" (hopefully he never says this to someone at a low point mentally) and am "a drippy bore". Hopefully he doesn't talk to kids like that - they deserve support.

 

[Guinness Boy]

That's a good response. You have clearly thought about it. The OP just wrote a click bait post with no thought. The kids deserve to be discussed in a more adult manner as you have.
But the OP does have history of personal attacks and such like this. I know myself as "no one will miss me if I go" (hopefully he never says this to someone at a low point mentally) and am "a drippy bore". Hopefully he doesn't talk to kids like that - they deserve support.

I just talk to you like that because your user name is a permanent monument to your ignorance. And you're a troll. And you haven't even got the balls to quote me directly, you passive-aggressive flange.

 

[dazzer6666]

That's a good response. You have clearly thought about it. The OP just wrote a click bait post with no thought. The kids deserve to be discussed in a more adult manner as you have.
But the OP does have history of personal attacks and such like this. I know myself as "no one will miss me if I go" (hopefully he never says this to someone at a low point mentally) and am "a drippy bore". Hopefully he doesn't talk to kids like that - they deserve support.

Not really . It’s a valid question, but the answer is that the academy doesn’t care too much about results and cares passionately about individual player development and progression, whether with us or elsewhere. It’s doing a pretty good job based on the number of young players on loan to competitive leagues, U21s playing in our first team and the cash we’re banking from those who don’t quite make it with us

 

[Guinness Boy]

Not really . It’s a valid question, but the answer is that the academy doesn’t care too much about results and cares passionately about individual player development and progression, whether with us or elsewhere. It’s doing a pretty good job based on the number of young players on loan to competitive leagues, U21s playing in our first team and the cash we’re banking from those who don’t quite make it with us

Yup. And good that a clarification comes from an invested local and not a troll from Shitkicker, Washington.

More than happy to accept the answer above. But if the 21s. Women's or first team had lost 6-1 to a team at the bottom without a point, it actually would have been an issue if there WASN'T a thread.

 

[Zeberdi]

Fair enough if those ITK are saying the overall quality of the team is less important than developing individual talent - although it seems counterproductive to the type of competitive team sport I was involved in at that age - I always believed that to become an elite player, and to get the chance to prove yourself at top level, you need to be playing in a team that show cases that talent and with teammates that can raise your game and constantly challenge you to reach your highest potential at any given stage of your development.

Having said that - I played competitive tennis and did competitive swimming up until the age of 18 - I know I got better, not just because of coaching but because I made a point, in free training, to always compete against swimmers or tennis players who were older and better than I was. If our U18s are always competing against better teams then I can understand how that could help individual development of skills and physicality.

I still sort of want to know why our U18s aren’t winning games though regardless of whether it is relevant to development or not - Is it investment? The way the Academy program is run? The lack of talent compared to other U18 teams?

 

[jackalbion]

Fair enough if those ITK are saying the overall quality of the team is less important than developing individual talent - although it seems counterproductive to the type of competitive team sport I was involved in at that age - I always believed that to become an elite player, and to get the chance to prove yourself at top level, you need to be playing in a team that show cases that talent and with teammates that can raise your game and constantly challenge you to reach your highest potential at any given stage of your development.

Having said that - I played competitive tennis and did competitive swimming up until the age of 18 - I know I got better, not just because of coaching but because I made a point, in free training, to always compete against swimmers or tennis players who were older and better than I was. If our U18s are always competing against better teams then I can understand how that could help individual development of skills and physicality.

I still sort of want to know why our U18s aren’t winning games though regardless of whether it is relevant to development or not - Is it investment? The way the Academy program is run? The lack of talent compared to other U18 teams?

I think this is the reason the U18s are not televised. The U18s will go for ages without winning games. Palace have been finishing higher than us in the league on occasion, however who’s doing better at Bringing through youth? You need not look into the results. We need to look at beyond the age of 18 how many players are playing competitive football in the top 4 leagues and we’ve got more than most.

 

[jackalbion]

For example, this U21 Brighton side lost 6-0 to Blackburn a few years back. A lot of that team are now playing league 2 or above, or have sat on the bench for the first team. Crofts also now works with the first team, it’s not a results game.

 

[GT49er]

View attachment 171052
For example, this U21 Brighton side lost 6-0 to Blackburn a few years back. A lot of that team are now playing league 2 or above, or have sat on the bench for the first team. Crofts also now works with the first team, it’s not a results game.

Interesting...................

Wilson - don't know;
Miller - in the National League;
Leonard - on loan to Northampton Town in League1;
Tanimowo - don't know;
Spong - released, now top dog at Queen's Park (Scottish Championship);
Hinchy - in U21s;
Furlong - released, now with Hull City, Championship;
Turns - on loan at League1 Leyton Orient;
Roberts - released; at Bristol City, Championship;
Nilsson - still with us?
Beadle - England U20s and Oxford United, League1, on loan;
Toby Bull, Ben Jackson, Samy Chouchaine - still with us, I think;
Andy Moran - on loan in the Championship (Blackburn):
Ifill - U21s.

Not a bad return ...............................

 

[AZ Gull]

Interesting...................

Wilson - don't know;
Miller - in the National League;
Leonard - on loan to Northampton Town in League1;
Tanimowo - don't know;
Spong - released, now top dog at Queen's Park (Scottish Championship);
Hinchy - in U21s;
Furlong - released, now with Hull City, Championship;
Turns - on loan at League1 Leyton Orient;
Roberts - released; at Bristol City, Championship;
Nilsson - still with us?
Beadle - England U20s and Oxford United, League1, on loan;
Toby Bull, Ben Jackson, Samy Chouchaine - still with us, I think;
Andy Moran - on loan in the Championship (Blackburn):
Ifill - U21s.

Not a bad return ...............................

Ben Wilson joined Cliftonville in July and is currently the top-scorer in the NIFL Premiership. There was a story today that Hibs might be looking at him.
I think Ayo Tanimowo was without a club for a year after being released in June 2022 but he joined Waltham Abbey in August.
Toby Bull is, I think, still without a club.
Nilsson, Jackson and Chouchane are still with us.

 

[jackalbion]

Ben Wilson joined Cliftonville in July and is currently the top-scorer in the NIFL Premiership. There was a story today that Hibs might be looking at him.
I think Ayo Tanimowo was without a club for a year after being released in June 2022 but he joined Waltham Abbey in August.
Toby Bull is, I think, still without a club.
Nilsson, Jackson and Chouchane are still with us.

Toby Bull is now at Carshalton but is injured, that’s what his dad said to me anyway.

 

[AZ Gull]

Toby Bull is now at Carshalton but is injured, that’s what his dad said to me anyway.

Oh yes - I see he is in competition with a relative of one of NSC's moderators! Matt Everitt is also there (he had joined Dorking so I don't know if he is on loan or made a permanent move).

 

[CheeseRolls]

For example, this U21 Brighton side lost 6-0 to Blackburn a few years back. A lot of that team are now playing league 2 or above, or have sat on the bench for the first team. Crofts also now works with the first team, it’s not a results game.

There was a period last season when the U21s were really struggling. They were looking to change style and play like the first team. The players had got the passing going, but had not really mastered the movement off the ball. There was a repeated pattern of the ball working out to the full backs who would then have only the option to hit the ball up the line. The opposition were dealing with this comfortably and also forcing lots of errors.

I don't know what happened in this game, but if you want to try out something new at U18 level, playing against the bottom side seems like a good time to experiment. Anyway Caldie has bags of credit as far as I am concerned and I hope he continues to assert a positive influence on the club for years to come.

 

[Braggfan]

Not really . It’s a valid question, but the answer is that the academy doesn’t care too much about results and cares passionately about individual player development and progression, whether with us or elsewhere. It’s doing a pretty good job based on the number of young players on loan to competitive leagues, U21s playing in our first team and the cash we’re banking from those who don’t quite make it with us

My best mate has a son at the academy, and there's definitely an emphasis on player development and progression over results. Having said that, it doesn't mean they don't care about results at all, just that it's not a top priority.

A good way of thinking about it, is clubs at the same level such as Millwall, Charlton, Reading, win games but their teams are packed with physically big lads who are agressive. At a younger age this will get them results. But I've seen those teams play against my mate's son and technically they are light years behind. In years to come as the Brighton players grow and get bigger, those other sides won't be able to cope because their physical advantage has gone.

Those clubs want to win games now, but won't develop players long term. Brighton may lose some games now, but they will produce a crop of technically good players who know the fundamentals required for the first team like pressing as a team, playing out from the back, moving between the lines etc and those players will stand a much better chance of making it as a pro either at Brighton or somewhere else.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Oh yes - I see he is in competition with a relative of one of NSC's moderators! Matt Everitt is also there (he had joined Dorking so I don't know if he is on loan or made a permanent move).

I think Toby was signed to cover for Will’s own recurring injury. They had a great start to the season, then had a shocking run of 8(?) poor results while he was out. Picking up agin now.

 

[Bry Nylon]

The EPL supporters 'Cut-out & Keep' guide to Academy football:

Academy side gets battered = "Results don't matter. It is all about player development."
Academy side wins their league = "We have a well-oiled production line brimming with future PL stars."

It is a complete impossibility to believe that the reality probably lies somewhere in the middle.

 

[Questions]

My best mate has a son at the academy, and there's definitely an emphasis on player development and progression over results. Having said that, it doesn't mean they don't care about results at all, just that it's not a top priority.

A good way of thinking about it, is clubs at the same level such as Millwall, Charlton, Reading, win games but their teams are packed with physically big lads who are agressive. At a younger age this will get them results. But I've seen those teams play against my mate's son and technically they are light years behind. In years to come as the Brighton players grow and get bigger, those other sides won't be able to cope because their physical advantage has gone.

Those clubs want to win games now, but won't develop players long term. Brighton may lose some games now, but they will produce a crop of technically good players who know the fundamentals required for the first team like pressing as a team, playing out from the back, moving between the lines etc and those players will stand a much better chance of making it as a pro either at Brighton or somewhere else.

This was always the case years back with our U16 and the like at international level., Once the technical players from Spain, Italy etc reached maturity they were generally better than us. It’s not the case since some clever bods realised it’s about an all round game.