[News] D Day 80th Year Anniversary

[Weststander]

@AmexRuislip, @SWINDON SEAGULL etc …

My reading and watching of D-Day over the years covered in detail overwhelming Allied air superiority from D-Day and the entire Normandy campaign. Day and night targeted bombing, the Mosquito and the Nazis feared the incredible Typhoon. Both the RAF and USAF.

Yet little of that appears to have been covered on TV this week. Just the other services.

Without the brave airmen, the armada and shipping over the following weeks would’ve been sitting ducks. Wehrmacht/SS troops and Panzer divisions wouldn’t have gone through a living hell, they could’ve reached the bridgehead.

Do you concur?

 

[Conkers]

BBC- D Day unheard tapes last night, very well done

Just watched the first episode.
So brilliantly done, an absolute must watch. Next 2 episodes shown over the next 2 nights.

 

[Brian Fantana]

My grandfather was one of the D-Day planners. A staunch Albion fan from the 1920s until he did aged 100 in 2017.

His job in the years and months that preceded D-Day was to analyse all of the potential landing beaches (of which there were many) and calculate what the average hourly death rate would be based on known geography and defences etc. For the rest of his life he always wondered whether he'd made the best decisions on the beaches chosen.

 

[AmexRuislip]

@AmexRuislip, @SWINDON SEAGULL etc …

My reading and watching of D-Day over the years covered in detail overwhelming Allied air superiority from D-Day and the entire Normandy campaign. Day and night targeted bombing, the Mosquito and the Nazis feared the incredible Typhoon. Both RAF and USAF.

Yet little of that appears to have been covered on TV this week. Just the other services.

Without the brave airmen, the armada and shipping over the following weeks would’ve been sitting ducks. Wehrmacht/SS troops and Panzer divisions wouldn’t have gone through a living hell, they could’ve reached the bridgehead.

Do you concur?

I think the point of the DD celebrations is for the heroic and brave people of the Navies and Armies.
You're correct that the air forces are not mentioned that much, but they do have there own commemorations in the Battle of Britain celebrations in July. With 2025 being 85 years.
@swindonseagull

 

[Bold Seagull]

I can proudly say that by the age of 13 or 14, I knew the D Day story inside out, fascinated by a plethora of films, toys, games, books and official anniversaries beside school teachings, first hand accounts and visits to the battlefields. Alas, the average teen today is unlikely to even be able to place Normandy on a map never mind knowing anything about events. It will therefore soon generally slip from memory and commemoration, and I wouldn’t bet against it somehow falling foul of wokery to hasten its departure from the national conscience.

I don’t think that’s true. My kids I think have learned about DDay, WWI and WWII from 2012 to now as much as I did in 1984-1990 if not more so. Funny how as a generation gets older they can’t not have a pop at younger generations. I dare say your age group when I was a teen were saying the same thing. Odd thing to reflect on for a big anniversary.

 

[Weststander]

I wonder why you had to die without the chance to say goodbye: Pvt A Richards, Hants Rgt, from Eileen and family, on a Bayeux Cemetery headstone.

sadly in a very small class of their own. Those periodic surveys that come out are always amusing when school kids never heard of Churchill, Hitler, Hastings, Nelson etc. but then we no longer have a remotely close shared heritage amongst many other factors

I’d be genuinely interested to know how French schools teach 1914-18 and 1939-1945.

My kids at school in the 2010’s were only taught about the rise of the Nazi Party up to 1939 [re the 1914 to 1945 era] in different cohorts. I found it more interesting than them, I got them to quiz my general knowledge .

Two other things. I know a highly successful independent school in Sussex, where about 15 years ago they abandoned history teaching in its 1970’s onwards style. Replacing it in part with a history of the British Isles either 0AD or 1000AD to the present day, following the chronology.

Then due to the tech age, things have changed. Out of school hours …. social media, gaming. I adored books, reading, history, geog, beyond school. Modern life has far more distractions. Some good, some not so.

 

[AmexRuislip]

 

[amexer]

Biden gets a lot of stick but credit to him spoke well and looked like without notes

 

[Weststander]

Biden gets a lot of stick but credit to him spoke well and looked like without notes

Trudeau, Macron, Biden, Charles, UK leaders … it was very respectful and classy. Thank god it was Biden!

 

[hart's shirt]

Tonight on Hove seafront.

Over 100 cadets present from all the services.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I’d be genuinely interested to know how French schools teach 1914-18 and 1939-1945.

My kids at school in the 2010’s were only taught about the rise of the Nazi Party up to 1939 [re the 1914 to 1945 era] in different cohorts. I found it more interesting than them, I got them to quiz my general knowledge .

Two other things. I know a highly successful independent school in Sussex, where about 15 years ago they abandoned history teaching in its 1970’s onwards style. Replacing it in part with a history of the British Isles either 0AD or 1000AD to the present day, following the chronology.

Then due to the tech age, things have changed. Out of school hours …. social media, gaming. I adored books, reading, history, geog, beyond school. Modern life has far more distractions. Some good, some not so.

Don't know about how the French teach the wars, but I was chatting to a French PhD student once (this was about 2015) who was entirely unaware that Algeria used to be part of France.
I suppose the comparison would be that there are probably plenty of British people who don't really understand that the Republic of Ireland used to be part of the UK, but I still found it bizarre.

 

[Weststander]

Don't know about how the French teach the wars, but I was chatting to a French PhD student once (this was about 2015) who was entirely unaware that Algeria used to be part of France.
I suppose the comparison would be that there are probably plenty of British people who don't really understand that the Republic of Ireland used to be part of the UK, but I still found it bizarre.

That’s complex. Until the early 60’s the French authorities were pushing live Algerian opponents out of planes. There’s a famous book in English that covers the conflict. French military officers even in modern times can be political eg the hatred of De Gaulle for finally giving up colonies. Some officers who oversaw the atrocities belligerently refused to apologise. The French Foreign Legion did other stuff even post WW2 to Africans (not for this forum), often photographing it. The millions who later came to France live on vast sink estates designed by fans of Le Carbusier on the fringe of cities, most young men have little hope of a job, snobbish white folk shun them.

It’s all very awkward.

 

[portlock seagull]

I don’t think that’s true. My kids I think have learned about DDay, WWI and WWII from 2012 to now as much as I did in 1984-1990 if not more so. Funny how as a generation gets older they can’t not have a pop at younger generations. I dare say your age group when I was a teen were saying the same thing. Odd thing to reflect on for a big anniversary.

Just not true as both geography and history have been eroded from curriculums plus the passage of time naturally aids. Moreover shared ancestory has diminished significantly, we have a huge proportion of our population that has no connection to anybody living in Britain then. Funny how some people cannot accept these facts, and see the wider picture.

 

[Weststander]

But not Sunak after lunch. Being reported he left early to to a TV interview he arranged himself to deny he had lied about Labour's spending plans.

Tim Montgomerie on Newsnight incandescent.

If this is true I can't see Sunk lasting long enough to face the electorate.

I was hoping the D-Day thread wouldn’t include UK infighting.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

That’s complex. Until the early 60’s the French authorities were pushing live Algerian opponents out of planes. There’s a famous book in English that covers the conflict. French military officers even in modern times can be political eg the hatred of De Gaulle for finally giving up colonies. Some officers who oversaw the atrocities belligerently refused to apologise. The French Foreign Legion did other stuff even post WW2 to Africans (not for this forum), often photographing it. The millions who later came to France live on vast sink estates designed by fans of Le Carbusier on the fringe of cities, most young men have little hope of a job, snobbish white folk shun them.

It’s all very awkward.

I'd have understood if he found it uncomfortable to discuss or only had a limited or one sided view of the situation.
But he actually stopped the conversation and asked "did you say Algeria used to be part of France?" because he had no idea.
To be honest, the more I think about it the more I think he must just have been one of these sciencey types who live in a complete bubble, because I don't understand how you could grow up in France as a reasonably intelligent person and not at least be vaguely aware of the connection with Algeria.

Anyway, not a thread I wish to derail. I'll leave it there.

 

[portlock seagull]

I’d be genuinely interested to know how French schools teach 1914-18 and 1939-1945.

My kids at school in the 2010’s were only taught about the rise of the Nazi Party up to 1939 [re the 1914 to 1945 era] in different cohorts. I found it more interesting than them, I got them to quiz my general knowledge .

Two other things. I know a highly successful independent school in Sussex, where about 15 years ago they abandoned history teaching in its 1970’s onwards style. Replacing it in part with a history of the British Isles either 0AD or 1000AD to the present day, following the chronology.

Then due to the tech age, things have changed. Out of school hours …. social media, gaming. I adored books, reading, history, geog, beyond school. Modern life has far more distractions. Some good, some not so.

Precisely. Today’s commemorations have been wonderful, but even the manner and frequency of these (the Beeb, Royal family etc) is passing into history because they’ll soon be gone also. The narrative, who decides and controls it, how it’s consumed, by whom, where and when…these are all changing or have already at a speed beyond comprehension really, so it’s no real shock when a teenager or older even has zero knowledge or understanding of today, which would have been unheard of 30-40 years ago.

 

[Weststander]

I'd have understood if he found it uncomfortable to discuss or only had a limited or one sided view of the situation.
But he actually stopped the conversation and asked "did you say Algeria used to be part of France?" because he had no idea.
To be honest, the more I think about it the more I think he must just have been one of these sciencey types who live in a complete bubble, because I don't understand how you could grow up in France as a reasonably intelligent person and not at least be vaguely aware of the connection with Algeria.

Anyway, not a thread I wish to derail. I'll leave it there.

Would it be the same as asking an Anglo Saxon PhD student “Did you know Kenya and Ghana used to be part of the UK” …. using your expression?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I was hoping the D-Day thread wouldn’t include UK infighting.

This is not UK infighting. But I'm happy to delete the posts.....and done.

 

[Weststander]

Precisely. Today’s commemorations have been wonderful, but even the manner and frequency of these (the Beeb, Royal family etc) is passing into history because they’ll soon be gone also. The narrative, who decides and controls it, how it’s consumed, by whom, where and when…these are all changing or have already at a speed beyond comprehension really, so it’s no real shock when a teenager or older even has zero knowledge or understanding of today, which would have been unheard of 30-40 years ago.

Complex topic.

I knew a lot as a child due to books, my Dad, The World At War and the brilliant The Great War narrated by Michael Redgrave. Other 70’’s/80’s kids might’ve had zero interest then, but with age have become inquisitive about their grandads. People do that, similarly the interest in ancestry.

You can’t force it.

But I’d hope we’ll always remember and respect those who literally ended Nazi tyranny and genocide. Overcoming that can’t be overplayed, everyone went through 4 and later 6 years of sacrifice and hell, others gave their lives.

 

[portlock seagull]

@AmexRuislip, @SWINDON SEAGULL etc …

My reading and watching of D-Day over the years covered in detail overwhelming Allied air superiority from D-Day and the entire Normandy campaign. Day and night targeted bombing, the Mosquito and the Nazis feared the incredible Typhoon. Both the RAF and USAF.

Yet little of that appears to have been covered on TV this week. Just the other services.

Without the brave airmen, the armada and shipping over the following weeks would’ve been sitting ducks. Wehrmacht/SS troops and Panzer divisions wouldn’t have gone through a living hell, they could’ve reached the bridgehead.

Do you concur?

I disagree. Coverage is what it is, and depending when and what and where you watch or read there’s pretty much nothing that’s not had some attention. If anything, I find today’s search by media to find a new angle, often presented as “The forgotten or untold story of XYZ” rather disingenuous mostly. Everything has been told before. Nobody has been forgotten. It’s just some, naturally, will be hearing for the first time. Plus there only so many hours in a day to cram everything in!