[Football] England's best ever opponents?

[Ooh it’s a corner]

Yes the point is correct that the OP seemed to be focusing on teams we faced at that time. Brazil ‘70 were magical. Had we been there to be beaten by the wonderful Dutch team in ‘74 that would have been a contender too - they were brilliant to watch.

 

[Lenny Rider]

Yes the point is correct that the OP seemed to be focusing on teams we faced at that time. Brazil ‘70 were magical. Had we been there to be beaten by the wonderful Dutch team in ‘74 that would have been a contender too - they were brilliant to watch.

Thank you.

You can't really go across the decades in any sport, would Jesse Owens have beaten Bolt?, would Tyson have beaten Ali?

My point was that given that by a large number of people that team Sir Alf Ramsey picked against Brazil is considered the strongest ever England line up, therefore should that Brazil team should be classed as their greatest opponents?

I was lucky enough to watch Cryuff destroy Revie's England at Wembley in 1977, and nearly 50 years on remains the greaterst individual footballing performance I've ever seen

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I suppose the obvious follow up question is who's the best team England have actually beaten?

AKA, have we ever not been beaten by "the first good team we played"? Or by definition is any team England actually win against automatically consigned to the "extremely average" or "shit" bin?

 

[Lenny Rider]

I suppose the obvious follow up question is who's the best team England have actually beaten?

AKA, have we ever not been beaten by "the first good team we played"? Or by definition is any team England actually win against automatically consigned to the "extremely average" or "shit" bin?

West Germany July 1966?

 

[Seagull58]

One for the old fogies to debate, is the Group game vs Brazil in the 1970's World Cup in Mexico, the best team the Three Lions have ever played in a competitive fixture?

At the time eventual champions Brazil's boss Mario Zagallo described the game as 'football for grown ups', as at that time many believed, and still do, that the 1970 England squad was the strongest one ever picked, despite going out in the Quarters to West Germany.

Unquestionably. England had a superb team and almost got a draw against a fantastic Brazil side. They could even afford to have a tailor's dummy in goal.

 

[Seagull58]

Have you watched the whole game since and what did you put it down to
A) Bonetti instead of Banks?
B) Charlton getting subbed with 20 mins left to save him for the semi?
C) England's poor defending?

Didn't we actually have goal chalked off at the start of extra time that would have put us 3-2 up?

I think Bonetti was at fault for Beckenbauer's and Seeler's goals. Seeler's header was a dolly that he simply watched into the net. Even the third goal was, arguably, an error by Brian Labone who was drawn to the ball znd allowed Der Bomber to get free two yards out.
Hurst had a goal disallowed on 109 minutes.
Taking off Charlton and Peters was a classic "Park the bus" tactic that handed the momentum to Germany.

 

[stewart12]

I suppose the obvious follow up question is who's the best team England have actually beaten?

AKA, have we ever not been beaten by "the first good team we played"? Or by definition is any team England actually win against automatically consigned to the "extremely average" or "shit" bin?

good question and the answer is probably not many. If looking at teams that are on par or better than England, from 1996 onwards I'd say

96: A talented Dutch side who were admittedly in civil war mode but then that Spain side was probably on par with Englands

98: None

00: Only beat Germany who were probably on par with England but poor

02: A fairly talented Argentina side?

04: None

06: None

08: Didn't qualify

10: None

12: None

14: None

16: None

18: I guess Colombia?

21: People will say Germany but really that was a poor German side who only just scraped through the first round

22: None

24: A pretty decent Dutch side


I'd probably say in my living memory it would be Spain in 96 or the Netherlands in 24

 

[Lenny Rider]

Also worth a mention, West Germany in the Euros QF 1st leg at Wembley 29 April 1972. With Bonhof and Heynckes on the bench. The England team was still highly regarded, but chased shadows.

View attachment 185807

First England game I ever watched on TV, it was on the Beeb, seem to recall the second leg in West Berlin didn't merit live TV coverage, just remember Dickie Davies going to Brain Moore for a report during World of Sport. (0-0 draw for the record)

 

[Weststander]

First England game I ever watched on TV, it was on the Beeb, seem to recall the second leg in West Berlin didn't merit live TV coverage, just remember Dickie Davies going to Brain Moore for a report during World of Sport. (0-0 draw for the record)

I was first aware of football from about 73. Jan Tomaszweski, "Porterfield One Nil".

But years later I worked with a bloke who told me about that German team taking the p at Wembley, especially Gunter Netzer.

 

[Seagull58]

I was first aware of football from about 73. Jan Tomaszweski, "Porterfield One Nil".

But years later I worked with a bloke who told me about that German team taking the p at Wembley, especially Gunter Netzer.

Netzer absolutely took the piss that night but for me that Brazil '70 side will always stand alone. The 4th goal in the final against Italy was a pisstake from start to finish. Pele, Jairzinho, Tostão, Gerson and Rivelino, five number 10s in attack. I'm too young to fully appreciate the magical magyars but don't forget they lost the '54 final to West Germany after beating them convincingly in the group game.

 

[Weststander]

Netzer absolutely took the piss that night but for me that Brazil '70 side will always stand alone. The 4th goal in the final against Italy was a pisstake from start to finish. Pele, Jairzinho, Tostão, Gerson and Rivelino, five number 10s in attack. I'm too young to fully appreciate the magical magyars but don't forget they lost the '54 final to West Germany after beating them convincingly in the group game.

I missed out on Mexico 70, but grew up later on the iconic names Pele, Tostao, Gerson and Rivelino. The official WC 70 film is spellbinding. One of the greatest tournaments? Some say that England squad was better than 1966. Italy’s Riva, Rivera, Facchetiti and Boninsegna. That semi final between Italy and Germany.

My favourite team ever was the Dutch 1974. Ten outfield greats with artisty.

 

[Rogero]

Another vote for Hungary , 7-1 it had to be

 

[zefarelly]

The first post should have closed the thread.

Iceland were good, on the day.

 

[Lenny Rider]

Another vote for Hungary , 7-1 it had to be

But that was a friendly, so should it really count?

 

[Seagull58]

I missed out on Mexico 70, but grew up later on the iconic names Pele, Tostao, Gerson and Rivelino. The official WC 70 film is spellbinding. One of the greatest tournaments? Some say that England squad was better than 1966. Italy’s Riva, Rivera, Facchetiti and Boninsegna. That semi final between Italy and Germany.

My favourite team ever was the Dutch 1974. Ten outfield greats with artisty.

The Dutch were great in '74, no question. Beaten by the host country, as in '78.
1970 was a magical tournament. Only 16 teams but packed with quality.

 

[Weststander]

The Dutch were great in '74, no question. Beaten by the host country, as in '78.
1970 was a magical tournament. Only 16 teams but packed with quality.

With very varied football cultures. The wiki page is interesting, almost all players including Brazilians played in their own country at club level. Soviet Bloc nations, Brazil’s flair, Italy’s famed Catenaccio, some more brutal Latin American teams.

 

[jakarta]

Brazil 1970, no other possible answer. magnificent game watched on a tiny TV in our kitchen!

Who was that bloke Pele any way?