How could the club ever break even?

[TWOCHOICEStom]

Payments from parachutes?

 

[El Turi]

We are constantly told on here that the league position a club finishes in is approximately the same as where it is in the wages league.

So how come a club which is 8th in wages, is LANGUISHING in 21st position ?

The wages that year were a lot higher than they would be now. I would have thought there's probably only 4 or 5 clubs in the league with a smaller wage budget than ours.

 

[Mellotron]

Some sort of payment involving a parachute?

Fair point.

 

[nwgull]

We are constantly told on here that the league position a club finishes in is approximately the same as where it is in the wages league.

So how come a club which is 8th in wages, is LANGUISHING in 21st position ?

Is it because those were the figures for 12/13 - the year we finished 4th?

 

[Mellotron]

So basically - as we all knew - the only chance for the club to break even is to get to the Prem at some point, even if we came straight back down the parachute payments would sort us RIGHT out.

Still, definitely was the right idea selling Barnes/not getting Murray/Ward etc etc etc.

 

[father_and_son]

Professional Gambler ......eh!
people keep telling me he is in property
so what exactly is it then?

That's what he does... not necessarily where his wealth comes from.

His "day job" is that he runs a [very successful] consultancy firm that, using what could best be described as "extreme statistics" recommends betting options to extremely wealthy individuals (presumably for a fee or a commission). Supposedly you need in excess of £2m cash to be considered as a client and everything I have seen suggests that it has a substantial turnover (billions) and creates a reasonable profit for both the clients and the business.

I guess that makes him a "Gambling Consultant" then.

From what I've read, he's been a professional gambler since leaving uni, specialises in football betting and poker and is good at both. I understand that he has invested much of the "cash" he makes in commercial property and therefore could be considered both a "Property Magnate" and a "Professional Gambler" as well as the above "Consultant" title.


As with most seriously wealthy people, money creates money and so he has fingers in a number of different pies, none of which is a full time job but all of which make him money.

 

[Mellotron]

I really think the only chance of clubs outside the Prem have to break even is to pay players the correct wage for the income of the clubs. Even then they will be stinking rich.

The players would simply go elsewhere, no?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

So basically - as we all knew - the only chance for the club to break even is to get to the Prem at some point, even if we came straight back down the parachute payments would sort us RIGHT out.

Can't be a single other way of setting that cycle of events in motion realistically, other than investing NOW in the players to get us there. Doing it 'at some point' just won't do. The new fans will be long gone by then, there won't be the turnover to allow for further investment, and the training ground - when the production line of talent (hopefully) comes onstream - will only be producing young players to be cherry-picked by any newly-PL-promoted club that cares to make a half-decent offer. The time to reverse the downward spiral is NOW IMHO. Anything else is a very dangerous game.

 

[Mellotron]

Can't be a single other way of setting that cycle of events in motion realistically, other than investing NOW in the players to get us there. Doing it 'at some point' just won't do. The new fans will be long gone by then, there won't be the turnover to allow for further investment, and the training ground - when the production line of talent (hopefully) comes onstream - will only be producing young players to be cherry-picked by any newly-PL-promoted club that cares to make a half-decent offer. The time to reverse the downward spiral is NOW IMHO. Anything else is a very dangerous game.

Agreed. I think it's too dangerous also to rely on the youth system to get us through as well - whilst it will be useful extra income if we're able to sell them on for a profit, home grown players probably won't be good enough in another 5-10 years time, as chances are the PL will be even harder to get into (and stay in) than it is now.

I think Tony may have to accept that we might have to "break the bank" the first time at least. Once we get to the Prem, it should be much more realistic to become self-sustaining, even if we came straight back down.

 

[Mellotron]

Only to clubs that want and can afford them though.

If English clubs start paying less, they'll go abroad. Players go wherever they're paid the most. Hence the foreign influx into the Prem. A wage cap would only work if it was worldwide, and that's patently never going to happen.

 

[BadFish]

90% of club total income goes on players wages...AND THATS FINANCIAL PRUDENCE!!!!!
The irresponsibility of football clubs will ultimately damage the game forever. They blindly ignore all accepted rules of business and shovel billions into the pockets of employees, irrespective of performance, and away and out of the game. They are not interested in investing in the structure of football. They seem quite happy for two thirds of all income in football to go to players and agents.
They are not running businesses. The employees are calling all the shots and the fans are the ones who get short-changed.
It sickens me to the core but there isn't a concerted will within the game to change anything.

This..... in its entirety. The willingness to look the other way on this issue amazes me.

 

[Weststander]

The players would simply go elsewhere, no?

Derby
Ipswich
Middlesborough
Bournemouth
Charlton

Are all competitive in the Championship, with club income no greater than or in fact far less than the Albion's. None of those clubs receive parachute payments, nor do they have a Nottingham Forest (or Leicester last season) type of owner spending £10m's per season in excess of income in a (prohibited financially) dash for the PL.

It shows that non-parachute clubs do have a chance in the Championship. Something the Albion haven't cracked as we've made the move to comply with FFP.

 

[warmleyseagull]

Broadly, there are three types of business:

1) for profit: most private enterprises that have to make a surplus to survive, to pay their shareholders (=directors in most cases) a satisfactory return;

2) not for profit: charities mostly but also parish councils. Academies and the like: enterprises whose prime purpose is not to make a financial surplus but who need to at least break-even over a reasonable period in order to sustain their prime purpose as they cannot guarantee that anyone else will a) fund them to carry on; or b) take on the responsibilities if they were to fail.

3) football clubs: who do not need to make a surplus as a) it is not their prime purpose; b) they will (nearly) always be bailed out by another mug if the current one walks; c) if b) fails they go down a few divisions and start again.

Until there is proper regulation of clubs' finances (and remains to be seen if FFP is it) then virtually no club will break even, as there will always be the mugs who think they can beat the system by chucking a load of £ms at it.