[Politics] Labour Party meltdown incoming.......

[DavidinSouthampton]

Sorry I thought my sarcasm was obvious

It was! After the are you avin a lark bit, I should have put “you probably are!”

 

[Machiavelli]

His suggestion of Adding Council tax bands A-C is the best suggestion I've heard throughout all of this, another blunt instrument (or simple to administer) but using both together gives a far better solution

This is what should be done to address that significant number who are just above the current cut off line. I don't know how we put pressure on the Government to do this, but maybe Martin Lewis, being someone in the public eye, with very good media links can start a focused campaign, with his proposed solution ?

Agreed. Starmer has just admitted that he didn't impact assess the move. With a bit of luck he and RR will learn from this. The optics are terrible: singling out pensioners I can just about forgive given that their income has been protected of late, but doing it so it's just pensioners was daft because the focus would fall on that; worse was to do so at such a low threshold without an impact assessment. No U-turn with this either, which they had the option to do. They've suffered enormously for raising not much money.

 

[DataPoint]

Quite right. It’s outrageous that they’ve been in power for two months and haven’t sorted everything out yet.

Well - they have sorted out those awesomely skilled locomotive engineers and coal shovelling firemen who generate and regulate the steam necessary to power tons of heavy metal safely along Britains' rail network!

 

[Bozza]

Agreed. Starmer has just admitted that he didn't impact assess the move. With a bit of luck he and RR will learn from this. The optics are terrible: singling out pensioners I can just about forgive given that their income has been protected of late, but doing it so it's just pensioners was daft because the focus would fall on that; worse was to do so at such a low threshold without an impact assessment. No U-turn with this either, which they had the option to do. They've suffered enormously for raising not much money.

Wow - you're right...

We did not do impact assessment of winter fuel payment cut, No 10 admits

Spokesperson for Keir Starmer says focus was instead on encouraging pensioners to seek additional support

www.theguardian.com

And there's still the continued lying, this time from Wes Streeting...

Asked on BBC One why no separate impact assessment had been undertaken, Streeting slightly dodged the question, saying that with a likely rise to the full state pension that is higher than the winter fuel payment, pensioners would not suffer.​

​

Asked why there had not been an assessment, he said: “Because pensioners will still be better off this winter, even after the changes to the winter fuel allowance.”​

​

On this thread, I and others have highlighted that pensions don't go up until April, something Martin Lewis also covers up in the video I linked to. If you live hand-to-mouth, as many of the poorest do, getting a bit more money from April does nothing to help you get through the coldest months when you want to heat your home.

Stories such as this are heart-breaking:

Widow 'scared' after missing out on winter fuel payment by £3

June Whitelaw, who has COPD, says she's afraid of the weather turning colder as she no longer qualifies for the Winter Fuel Allowance.

news.stv.tv

​

​

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I have an issue that they've had five different leaders since (and probably because of) the disastrous own goal of Brexit. Which is exactly why Labour have so much shit to shovel. Eight weeks simply isn't long enough for that. There are probably still 8 week old lettuces in fridges somewhere.

@jackalbion kebab review pending

 

[Weststander]

Wow - you're right...

We did not do impact assessment of winter fuel payment cut, No 10 admits

Spokesperson for Keir Starmer says focus was instead on encouraging pensioners to seek additional support

www.theguardian.com

And there's still the continued lying, this time from Wes Streeting...

Asked on BBC One why no separate impact assessment had been undertaken, Streeting slightly dodged the question, saying that with a likely rise to the full state pension that is higher than the winter fuel payment, pensioners would not suffer.​

​

Asked why there had not been an assessment, he said: “Because pensioners will still be better off this winter, even after the changes to the winter fuel allowance.”​

​

On this thread, I and others have highlighted that pensions don't go up until April, something Martin Lewis also covers up in the video I linked to. If you live hand-to-mouht, as many of the poorest do, getting a bit more money from April does nothing to help you get through the coldest months when you want to heat your home.

Stoeis such as this are heart-breaking:

Widow 'scared' after missing out on winter fuel payment by £3

June Whitelaw, who has COPD, says she's afraid of the weather turning colder as she no longer qualifies for the Winter Fuel Allowance.

news.stv.tv

​

​

I’m sure Reeves will (have to) do something, for the politics alone. Otherwise this will run and run, and heighten when the cold arrives. These things such as milk snatcher, sold our gold, Partygate, Brown caught calling a supporter a “bigoted women”, all have a life of their own and last. Reeves still has an opportunity to look after the pensioners in the bracket above Pension Credit.

The so called money saving will disappear anyway with more folk below means tested benefits thresholds, signing up.

 

[A1X]

Well - they have sorted out those awesomely skilled locomotive engineers and coal shovelling firemen who generate and regulate the steam necessary to power tons of heavy metal safely along Britains' rail network!

TBH if they bought back steam trains I reckon they’d clean up at the next five elections

 

[LamieRobertson]

Well - they have sorted out those awesomely skilled locomotive engineers and coal shovelling firemen who generate and regulate the steam necessary to power tons of heavy metal safely along Britains' rail network!

Lol....nothing like hitting the ground running....backwards

 

[Eeyore]

They won't. Not by a long way. Successive governments have, for many years, tried to get people who are due Pension Credits to claim them and we're still in a position where close to 900,000 don't. I've explained why previously on tthis thread.

Martin Lewis was typically excellent on this on 5Live today. I just tried to find it to post here, but I found this instead - very similar. I very much encourage those who think this is all a fuss over nothing to invest a few minutes listening to him.

I hadn't thought about this. My own thoughts is that WFA should be scrapped, yes, because too many have it as a windfall. But I do worry about those who aren't in a position to apply for help as he says. The government has a duty to protect the vulnerable.

 

[Bodian]

His suggestion of Adding Council tax bands A-C is the best suggestion I've heard throughout all of this, another blunt instrument (or simple to administer) but using both together gives a far better solution

This is what should be done to address that significant number who are just above the current cut off line. I don't know how we put pressure on the Government to do this, but maybe Martin Lewis, being someone in the public eye, with very good media links can start a focused campaign, with his proposed solution ?

The Council Tax is a bit of an odd one though. My Avenue of 14 houses are all in Council Tax Band B. I know all my neighbours - none actually 'need' the WFP, as they are all on okay pensions. So, again, not a perfect solution.

And I also didn't know until just now that the £300 that everyone talks about is only for over-80s. Under-80s only got £200. So, when we're bandying about figures, I guess really we should be saying £200-300 rather than a straight £300.

 

[Eeyore]

The Council Tax is a bit of an odd one though. My Avenue of 14 houses are all in Council Tax Band B. I know all my neighbours - none actually 'need' the WFP, as they are all on okay pensions. So, again, not a perfect solution.

And I also didn't know until just now that the £300 that everyone talks about is only for over-80s. Under-80s only got £200. So, when we're bandying about figures, I guess really we should be saying £200-300 rather than a straight £300.

Yes, ironically there are pensioners who live in larger houses but would suffer if they moved. It wouldn't be uncommon for some to be struggling. Some have downsized to smaller flats and are cash rich.

 

[nevergoagain]

Mum's anger at Wes Streeting's child cancer task force 'pause'

The mother of a girl who died from a rare form of cancer criticises the government for "pausing" a task force.

www.bbc.co.uk

Nasty Wes Streeting.

 

[Bozza]

We all enjoy seeing Jonathan Pie expose hypocrisy and hold callous government policy decisions to account, don't we?

 

[Is it PotG?]

We all enjoy seeing Jonathan Pie expose hypocrisy and hold callous government policy decisions to account, don't we?

The faux sincerity and hypocrisy is quite alarming, but not unexpected.

 

[Bozza]

I'm more interested in my original question. I know you've got skin in the game on the culling of the WFA, but would gently suggest that you've been more active on the politics threads over the past month or so than previously -- you might counter that I've been less active, which is fair.

Apologies for not replying to this yesterday - I wanted to do so when I wasn't rushed...

Personally, I don't hold this government to a higher standard than previous ones. I expect a high standard from all elected public officials, regardless of political persuation.

Unfortunately, I've felt very let down in recent years - something shared by many of us, it seems.

I very much hope for better from this Labour government - god knows the country needs it, and I have no doubt that Starmer is a decent man who wants to bring about positive change.

Which is why, like Martin Lewis and countless others, I am absolutely dumbfounded at how the removal of the Winter Fuel Payment has been enacted. No one can argue that, in some quarters, it was being paid to people who simply did not need it. It was but a drop in their ocean of wealth.

But there are also a lot of people who desperately need this, and are now facing the fear of a winter when they can't heat their home as they wish, many of whom will have health conditions that could be exacerbated by extended periods in cold conditions.

I'm not sure I do have skin in this particular game - my mum is fortunate, and I use the term loosely, that she's considered poor enough to receive Pension Credits, so will continue to receive the Winter Fuel Payment. But that doesn't mean I'm not massively concerned for those more/less fortunate who won't, and are now living in genuine fear of what the cold months may bring.

I'm rarely active in political threads on NSC because I think they are the very worst part of this otherwise warm and supportive community. They are dominated by a handful of people exchanging snide digs at each other, and neither side will ever actually stop and consider a different perspective.

My politics are naturally right of centre, but I genuinely can't recall when I last voted Conservative. I know I have voted Labour multiple times since I last did, although my default position recently has been Liberal Democrat.

What I truly despair of is the myopic single-party types, on both wings. I could have listed 5-10 people on here who would either display extreme hypocrisy or simply go mysteriously AWOL when Starmer et al made the kind of mis-step that can happen to any government, even the decent well-intentioned ones. They simply can't bring themselves to say "My side got this one wrong", and it has played out exactly as I expected.

As I say, I don't like these threads, and I do regret getting involved as it sours my opinion of people who I'm sure are good guys.

 

[fly high]

Stories such as this are heart-breaking:

Widow 'scared' after missing out on winter fuel payment by £3

June Whitelaw, who has COPD, says she's afraid of the weather turning colder as she no longer qualifies for the Winter Fuel Allowance.

news.stv.tv

​

​

Not just heartbreaking, it makes me really angry and disgusted especially with all the fobbing off which comes with it.

 

[BLOCK F]

Apologies for not replying to this yesterday - I wanted to do so when I wasn't rushed...

Personally, I don't hold this government to a higher standard than previous ones. I expect a high standard from all elected public officials, regardless of political persuation.

Unfortunately, I've felt very let down in recent years - something shared by many of us, it seems.

I very much hope for better from this Labour government - god knows the country needs it, and I have no doubt that Starmer is a decent man who wants to bring about positive change.

Which is why, like Martin Lewis and countless others, I am absolutely dumbfounded at how the removal of the Winter Fuel Payment has been enacted. No one can argue that, in some quarters, it was being paid to people who simply did not need it. It was but a drop in their ocean of wealth.

But there are also a lot of people who desperately need this, and are now facing the fear of a winter when they can't heat their home as they wish, many of whom will have health conditions that could be exacerbated by extended periods in cold conditions.

I'm not sure I do have skin in this particular game - my mum is fortunate, and I use the term loosely, that she's considered poor enough to receive Pension Credits, so will continue to receive the Winter Fuel Payment. But that doesn't mean I'm not massively concerned for those more/less fortunate who won't, and are now living in genuine fear of what the cold months may bring.

I'm rarely active in political threads on NSC because I think they are the very worst part of this otherwise warm and supportive community. They are dominated by a handful of people exchanging snide digs at each other, and neither side will ever actually stop and consider a different perspective.

My politics are naturally right of centre, but I genuinely can't recall when I last voted Conservative. I know I have voted Labour multiple times since I last did, although my default position recently has been Liberal Democrat.

What I truly despair of is the myopic single-party types, on both wings. I could have listed 5-10 people on here who would either display extreme hypocrisy or simply go mysteriously AWOL when Starmer et al made the kind of mis-step that can happen to any government, even the decent well-intentioned ones. They simply can't bring themselves to say "My side got this one wrong", and it has played out exactly as I expected.

As I say, I don't like these threads, and I do regret getting involved as it sours my opinion of people who I'm sure are good guys.

Like you , I have been arguing that this was a serious mistake by the Labour Party and again like you, I have been totally exasperated by some on here who are unable to accept that the implementation of this policy has been a total disaster. The hypocrisy has, on occasion, been breathtaking.
I always think twice before putting forward my views on the political threads, but too often, against my better judgement, I succumb and more often than not I regret it!

 

[Chicken Run]

We all enjoy seeing Jonathan Pie expose hypocrisy and hold callous government policy decisions to account, don't we?

He really is a snide isn’t he, trying to sound sincere, he must have a complete lack of awareness.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Like you , I have been arguing that this was a serious mistake by the Labour Party and again like you, I have been totally exasperated by some on here who are unable to accept that the implementation of this policy has been a total disaster. The hypocrisy has, on occasion, been breathtaking.
I always think twice before putting forward my views on the political threads, but too often, against my better judgement, I succumb and more often than not I regret it!

I’m pretty sure on this occasion you have no regrets

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Genuine question, what do people think the threshold should be before you lose the payments?