[Politics] Labour Party meltdown incoming.......

[Guinness Boy]

That is true in principle but a very broad and non-specific description. You know there is no agreed definition of what constitutes “antisemitism “ across the political spectrum right? Nor even amongst Jews. Not only has it been weaponised and misappropriated by both Jews and non-Jews alike but it is often misunderstood by those that use the term. . It is impossible to define antisemitism in a non-situational context.

As you can see from the posters above, there is a wide spectrum of understanding even in British politics - I suspect in Corbyn’s case, it was somewhere in between the two extremes.

As the poster said- criticism of Israel, anyone that happens to be Jewish, defending Muslims etc have all been deemed as anti- Semitic. Even criticising the thousands of civilian dead in Gaza, has been regarded by some as antisemitic.

These terms are problematic in any dialogue if there are no agreed parameters for what constitutes “anti-Jewish racism” and what doesn’t.

You’re an intelligent chap, and I’m sure you could spot anti black or anti Asian racism.

Why do you think anti Jewish is so hard to define?

You’re going to say “Israel” aren’t you?

 

[ClemFandango]

His "rampant anti-Semitism" is a figment of your imagination but carry on the delusion if it helps. It was weaponised against him much like it is being done today against critics of Israeli Apartheid and genocide.

He was kicked out of the Labour Party by the Labour Party because of it. Hardly ‘a figment of the imagination’

 

[aolstudios]

That is true in principle but a very broad and non-specific description. You know there is no agreed definition of what constitutes “antisemitism “ across the political spectrum right? Nor even amongst Jews. Not only has it been weaponised and misappropriated by both Jews and non-Jews alike but it is often misunderstood by those that use the term. . It is impossible to define antisemitism in a non-situational context.

As you can see from the posters above, there is a wide spectrum of understanding even in British politics - I suspect in Corbyn’s case, it was somewhere in between the two extremes.

As the poster said- criticism of Israel, anyone that happens to be Jewish, defending Muslims etc have all been deemed as anti- Semitic. Even criticising the thousands of civilian dead in Gaza, has been regarded by some as antisemitic.

These terms are problematic in any dialogue if there are no agreed parameters for what constitutes “anti-Jewish racism” and what doesn’t.

Antisemitism was a word coined by a proud 19th century Jew hater, to specifically mean Jew hate or anti Jewish prejudice

 

[aolstudios]

His "rampant anti-Semitism" is a figment of your imagination but carry on the delusion if it helps. It was weaponised against him much like it is being done today against critics of Israeli Apartheid and genocide.

You would say that, obviously

 

[armchairclubber]

I doubt @armchairclubber would be happy with a Tory Party that has the likes of Suella Braverman, Liz Truss and Michael Gove to keep reminding us that Muslims and “illegal immigrants” are a terror risk to the UK.

Thankyou Zeb.

I was hoping that, having never been a Labour Party Member, and having never voted Tory in my life, I might open it to Labour Party Members and how they felt about the conversation within the tweet below

Furthermore whether members felt there is enough evidence within the tweet to warrant any action being taken, as it claims?

It may be worth considering with any claims of antisemitism that Luke Akehurst is not Jewish. He is a committed Zionist.

Our Team

www.webelieveinisrael.org.uk

Also interested in opinion on Luke Akehurst apparently being found a "safe" seat and not being from the area.

I'd really like to know Party Members views (take it there are some on here) or even others to comment on their views.

From previous experience I think it would be best to keep me out of personal replies if they are offensive.

 

[borat]

You would say that, obviously

Says the "man" that puts laughing emojis constantly over topics discussing the massacre of thousands of men, women and children.

Fifty times Jeremy Corbyn stood with Jewish people

Skwawkbox has just published an extensive list of solidarity actions by Jeremy Corbyn over the years with various groups within…

www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk

 

[goldstoneseagull]

You’re an intelligent chap, and I’m sure you could spot anti black or anti Asian racism.

Why do you think anti Jewish is so hard to define?

You’re going to say “Israel” aren’t you?

Even if we’re to accept the definition of ‘anti-Jewish racism’ - there’s no way that includes criticism of Israeli foreign policy (the ‘collateral’ of such are thousands of innocent children) yet we appear to have reached a point where it has become racist to be against the slaughter of the same.

 

[Weststander]

Going back to the Magic Grandpa era, the independent EHRC carried out an investigation under their statutory powers. They found multiple examples of antisemitic tropes and conspiracy theories, peddled by Jew hating Labour Party members, in addition harassment against Jewish LP members based on their ethnicity. Breaches of the Equalities Acts. The key point about Magic Grandpa and his cabal, was repeated political interference in the complaints process, expressly against the LP constitution and its own rules.

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com...n-into-antisemitism-in-the-labour-party_0.pdf

He stuck his proboscis in to look after allies.

 

[clapham_gull]

His "rampant anti-Semitism" is a figment of your imagination but carry on the delusion if it helps. It was weaponised against him much like it is being done today against critics of Israeli Apartheid and genocide.

As a left of centre yoghurt knitting liberal the problem with Corbyn and his ilk are not a figment of my imagination. Neither is a figment of my imagination the appalling behaviour of the Israeli state.

That said, I spoke to individuals recently on the left whose views were very very disturbing.

Parts of the left have an issue with antisemitism and have had so for decades. Own it and drive it out or stick your head in the sand. The choice is yours.

Also firstly be honest about what you actually think and why you think it.

They have been some posts on here by some individuals who attended the marches in London, which I totally support. However the individuals I spoke to wouldn't want you or friends on that march. Unfortunately you aren't "pure" enough in your beliefs.

Don't stand alongside those people.

 

[chip]

Why do you think anti Jewish is so hard to define?

It's quite easy to define when you experience it. I think Zeberdi knows that.

 

[Chicken Run]

Corbynista’s getting aggy with Starmer supporters, i think the thread title is spot on

 

[aolstudios]

Even if we’re to accept the definition of ‘anti-Jewish racism’ - there’s no way that includes criticism of Israeli foreign policy (the ‘collateral’ of such are thousands of innocent children) yet we appear to have reached a point where it has become racist to be against the slaughter of the same.

No, we haven't.
Not at all

 

[aolstudios]

Going back to the Magic Grandpa era, the independent EHRC carried out an investigation under their statutory powers. They found multiple examples of antisemitic tropes and conspiracy theories, peddled by Jew hating Labour Party members, in addition harassment against Jewish LP members based on their ethnicity. Breaches of the Equalities Acts. The key point about Magic Grandpa and his cabal, was repeated political interference in the complaints process, expressly against the LP constitution and its own rules.

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com...n-into-antisemitism-in-the-labour-party_0.pdf

He stuck his proboscis in to look after allies.

Well, exactly

 

[Guinness Boy]

Even if we’re to accept the definition of ‘anti-Jewish racism’ - there’s no way that includes criticism of Israeli foreign policy (the ‘collateral’ of such are thousands of innocent children) yet we appear to have reached a point where it has become racist to be against the slaughter of the same.

So, all the social media activity re Corbyn was before 7 October.

Let me draw you a parallel. India was also partitioned in the 1940s and currently has an unpleasant, right wing, nationalist government. It’s been in constant skirmishes in Kashmir. And that was the status in 2020/21. It discriminates against non Hindus.

Why would the left of Labour attack Israel but not India

 

[aolstudios]

Says the "man" that puts laughing emojis constantly over topics discussing the massacre of thousands of men, women and children.

Fifty times Jeremy Corbyn stood with Jewish people

Skwawkbox has just published an extensive list of solidarity actions by Jeremy Corbyn over the years with various groups within…

www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk

Nope.
I use them when obsessive Antisemites post cynical, post truth rubbish. It seems appropriate

 

[aolstudios]

So, all the social media activity re Corbyn was before 7 October.

Let me draw you a parallel. India was also partitioned in the 1940s and currently has an unpleasant, right wing, nationalist government. It’s been in constant skirmishes in Kashmir. And that was the status in 2020/21. It discriminates against non Hindus.

Why would the left of Labour attack Israel but not India

No Jews, no news.
Always

 

[Weststander]

So, all the social media activity re Corbyn was before 7 October.

Let me draw you a parallel. India was also partitioned in the 1940s and currently has an unpleasant, right wing, nationalist government. It’s been in constant skirmishes in Kashmir. And that was the status in 2020/21. It discriminates against non Hindus.

Why would the left of Labour attack Israel but not India

And the complete lack of interest in the genocide of the (Muslim) Uyghurs in China, little interest in fascist Putin waging an illegal war and carrying out atrocities in Ukraine.

For the crinkly old hard left, it’s a very selective moral code they can’t cleanse themself of from the Cold War. The Soviets/Putin, they’re alright, let’s hate the West and World Jewry instead. With a new racist age group who just can’t bring themself to feel for Muslims in India and China. Weird.

 

[Zeberdi]

You’re an intelligent chap, and I’m sure you could spot anti black or anti Asian racism.

Why do you think anti Jewish is so hard to define?

You’re going to say “Israel” aren’t you?

I don’t for myself but not everyone agrees with me. If someone accuses me of not being Jewish because of defending Palestinians or tries to cancel out my racial identity to try and win an argument - that is antisemitic. It is dehumanising because I self-identify as a Jewish person - If someone tells me all Jews want Muslims dead or Jews think they are better than anyone else because they believe they are chosen - that is antisemitic. Suggesting that a Jewish person is an apologist for terrorists that have the destruction of Israel as an ideology- that’s antisemitic.

All of that has happened to me on the Gaza thread yet not one of you so eager to call out antisemitism have even recognised it as such.

Criticising the leader of the Jewish State for indiscriminate killing of Gazan civilians or saying the Palestinians deserve to have independence and be free from the illegal occupation of their territories- that is not antisemitic.

But whatever, Im not interested into being drawn into a polarised discussion - you have made it quite clear that you see the whole discussion on the Israel thread as that an incapable of being anything more - and I am tired of defending Israel’s right to exist and right to self defence to antisemites (who blame all Jews in Israel for what is happening) and defending Muslims and Palestinians’ right to self-determination to those that accuse anyone of attacking Israel’s actions in Gaza, as antisemitic and supporting terrorism..

There is no one on the forum that expresses the same views as I do - because there is no one else who is both Jewish (and loves Israel) but finds what Netanyahu is doing in Gaza deeply abhorrent - so please stop trying tag me as such.

 

[borat]

As a left of centre yoghurt knitting liberal the problem with Corbyn and his ilk are not a figment of my imagination. Neither is a figment of my imagination the appalling behaviour of the Israeli state.

That said, I spoke to individuals recently on the left whose views were very very disturbing.

Parts of the left have an issue with antisemitism and have had so for decades. Own it and drive it out or stick your head in the sand. The choice is yours.

Also firstly be honest about what you actually think and why you think it.

They have been some posts on here by some individuals who attended the marches in London, which I totally support. However the individuals I spoke to wouldn't want you or friends on that march. Unfortunately you aren't "pure" enough in your beliefs.

Don't stand alongside those people.

There is unfortunately anti-semitism and racism across all of society and across all parties. There are no studies to show it's more prevalent in Labour than other parties. AS was chosen as the weapon of choice against Corbyn because of his anti-apartheid Israel stance but also his tax and renationalisation policies.

You can see the numbers laid out here which represented a miniscule amount of Labour members (1 is too many)

How many antisemites in Labour? Facts not factionalism

We are seeing growing evidence calling into question the oft-repeated claim that antisemitic abuse was widespread in the Labour Party…

www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk

Corbyn got into trouble for interfering in the process asking it be SPED UP. The right wing of the party involved in the process deliberately sat on complaints

Starmer himself has expelled many Jews from the party for often spurious reasons (because of their anti-Israel stance). Jews have a long proud history of left wing activism in the UK and US. Starmers attitude to those Jews shows this is a policy issue not an AS issue.

The Forde report also found that there was "a hierarchy of racism" in Labour with black and brown concerns not given the same prominence.

Given Starmers lack of action or acknowledgement of the Forde report and his defence of a state that is mass murdering brown people. You could easily deduce that Starmers and his acolytes have an issue with people of colour.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Starmer & Co will be in office for 10 years max.

FACT.

Agree. Then Andy Burnham will lead the country.