[Albion] List of players that have gone backwards under the current coach

[Weststander]

He might have started RB though as well.

Looked great at Anfield.

Until making the fatal mistake of allowing Mo onto his left for the winner.

 

[Guinness Boy]

What a ridiculous thread. We have 51 points, only ever bettered in 22/23. A fabulous season especially considering the huge changes across the squad

That wasn’t anything to do with my point. Are you happy with the way Adingra, Estupinian and Verbruggen have played this season? Do you think they’re improving? Has Fab’s high line suited the aging Dunk?

Perhaps play the actual thread content and not what you thought it was

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Until making the fatal mistake of allowing Mo onto his left for the winner.

That was Pervis.
Igor pushed up to win the ball, failed and left Pervis exposed.

 

[Weststander]

That was Pervis.
Igor pushed up to win the ball, failed and left Pervis exposed.

But many others make the same mistake, including today.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

But many others make the same mistake, including today.

True, but not down to Ferdi, who was outstanding on the day until withdrawn.
In fact it was more Igor than anyone, because if he was inside of Pervis he would have had a chance to close it down….

That was frustrating, because other than 20 mins, we were largely the better team.

 

[Weststander]

True, but not down to Ferdi, who was outstanding on the day until withdrawn.

Sorry, I thought we were talking about Estupinan.

 

[1066familyman]

That wasn’t anything to do with my point. Are you happy with the way Adingra, Estupinian and Verbruggen have played this season? Do you think they’re improving? Has Fab’s high line suited the aging Dunk?

Perhaps play the actual thread content and not what you thought it was

Let's flip this a bit then.

Do you think all players in a squad should automatically improve, season after season?

Don't some players just have bad seasons, for any number of reasons aside from the manager or system they're being asked to play in?

Also, surely some players just don't get along, or fall out with a manager. Salah seems a classic example of this to me, from the limited time I've seen of them. He'd clearly fallen out with Klipperty last season, and yet now under the new bloke he's back to his old self, although I can't see that he's being asked to do anything different to before (?).


I do accept what you say about FH's high line defence. Dunk especially is getting found out by this due to his lack of pace and his age. Can't really argue with that tbf.


The fact that you can only name four players that haven't progressed this season (and in truth I tend to agree with you on those players) tells me that it can't really all be on the manager, can it? Especially as Estupinán in particular seemed to be going backwards before FH even arrived.

Edit : I'm also thinking strikers that go from superb, to completely losing confidence and not being able to hit a barn door, without the system or what they're being asked to do changing. Just look at Ferguson. His massive decline can't be due to any manager.

 

[Perkino]

That wasn’t anything to do with my point. Are you happy with the way Adingra, Estupinian and Verbruggen have played this season? Do you think they’re improving? Has Fab’s high line suited the aging Dunk?

Perhaps play the actual thread content and not what you thought it was

We play a different style and system than under RDZ which leaves our defense more exposed than previously. Bart has faced more shots, Dunk and Estupinian have been more exposed but we have for a second season had to deal with losing our two centre midfielders.

Adingra hasn't had much game time as others have been picked ahead of him.

I have been more impressed with Lamptey, Van Heckle, Hinshelwood, Baleba, Ayari, Welbeck and loved watching new signings get involved.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Let's flip this a bit then.

Do you think all players in a squad should automatically improve, season after season?

Don't some players just have bad seasons, for any number of reasons aside from the manager or system they're being asked to play in?

Also, surely some players just don't get along, or fall out with a manager. Salah seems a classic example of this to me, from the limited time I've seen of them. He'd clearly fallen out with Klipperty last season, and yet now under the new bloke he's back to his old self, although I can't see that he's being asked to do anything different to before (?).


I do accept what you say about FH's high line defence. Dunk especially is getting found out by this due to his lack of pace and his age. Can't really argue with that tbf.


The fact that you can only name four players that haven't progressed this season (and in truth I tend to agree with you on those players) tells me that it can't really all be on the manager, can it? Especially as Estupinán in particular seemed to be going backwards before FH even arrived.

I think when your business model is buy cheap and sell expensive then most of the players in the squad should be on an improvement journey, yes.

Obviously Dunk is an exception as a one club player. In his case it’s just our tactics are exposing his age and injuries.

 

[Machiavelli]

But to be fair it is the point of a forum, just an exchange of views.
Really don’t have a problem providing people give some rationale.
Pervis is my favourite player, but he has been terrible the last two games, seems to have a habit of getting far too tight or being more interested in playing the player and then the ball.

He also seems to pushed too far up, but I’m afraid that is our manager. From that perspective it was a little better yesterday, but not great, see first goal.

Of course it's an exchange of views and agree about rationale. But it's not as if all rationales are equal.
And we've been in the top half of the PL table for most of the season, and too much of the narrative on here is about doom and gloom. That's what irritates me. You know where the club is currently with respect to its history. We're not going to have too many top half finishes (and might not get one this season). We'll have even fewer European qualifications (it's still a possibility this season).
Some of the football has been stunning this season too -- the two consecutive games against Bournemouth and Newcastle were as good as they get.
But, as I said, it's dawned on me this is the new normal: lots of fans that think they know better than Bloom, whichever manager is in charge, and that if only they were given the reins things will be better. I'd rather trust in Tony, and in whatever decision he makes on managers, the team around the club, player recruitment, and so on -- he knows more than you and I. The best we can do is to try and understand why he makes the decisions he does.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Of course it's an exchange of views and agree about rationale. But it's not as if all rationales are equal.
And we've been in the top half of the PL table for most of the season, and too much of the narrative on here is about doom and gloom. That's what irritates me. You know where the club is currently with respect to its history. We're not going to have too many top half finishes (and might not get one this season). We'll have even fewer European qualifications (it's still a possibility this season).
Some of the football has been stunning this season too -- the two consecutive games against Bournemouth and Newcastle were as good as they get.
But, as I said, it's dawned on me this is the new normal: lots of fans that think they know better than Bloom, whichever manager is in charge, and that if only they were given the reins things will be better. I'd rather trust in Tony, and in whatever decision he makes on managers, the team around the club, player recruitment, and so on -- he knows more than you and I. The best we can do is to try and understand why he makes the decisions he does.

But Tony thinks we can be regularly in Europe. That’s part of the club targets handed out to the staff at the start of this season.

You’re just another one conflating ambition with entitlement and it’s a little disappointing.

 

[1066familyman]

I think when your business model is buy cheap and sell expensive then most of the players in the squad should be on an improvement journey, yes.

Obviously Dunk is an exception as a one club player. In his case it’s just our tactics are exposing his age and injuries.

Hmmm, fair point for those players in particular, but then really that would only cover Adingra and Verbruggen, so now we're down to only two players

Also, neither of those players are being asked to do anything different really, under the new manager.

Accepted, Verbruggen hasn't been helped by having a comedy club defence in front of him more often than not, lol.

 

[Machiavelli]

But Tony thinks we can be regularly in Europe. That’s part of the club targets handed out to the staff at the start of this season.

You’re just another one conflating ambition with entitlement and it’s a little disappointing.

Really? Be interested to see you sharing Tony saying we can regularly be in Europe.
Ambition is different from expectation. I think anyone disappointed with Brighton getting a top half finish is deluded and entitled. We've done it twice in 124 years.

 

[1066familyman]

But Tony thinks we can be regularly in Europe. That’s part of the club targets handed out to the staff at the start of this season.

You’re just another one conflating ambition with entitlement and it’s a little disappointing.

Has it been stated that our aim is to be in Europe this season then?

Next season, maybe, but surely this is a transitional season, with all the comings and goings, hoping to lay the foundations to build upon for a European push next season and beyond? In that I'd say FH has been very successful so far.

Or am I misreading the FH quote, ' We aim to upset the establishment.', as meaning wanting instant success?

 

[Guinness Boy]

Really? Be interested to see you sharing Tony saying we can regularly be in Europe.
Ambition is different from expectation. I think anyone disappointed with Brighton getting a top half finish is deluded and entitled. We've done it twice in 124 years.

Has it been stated that our aim is to be in Europe this season then?

Next, season maybe, but surely this is a transitional season, with all the comings and goings, hoping to lay the foundations to build upon for a European push next season and beyond? In that I'd say FH has been very successful so far.

Or am I misreading the FH quote, ' We aim to upset the establishment.', as meaning wanting instant success?

Two people I know received those targets.

 

[1066familyman]

Two people I know received those targets.

Do tell.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Of course it's an exchange of views and agree about rationale. But it's not as if all rationales are equal.
And we've been in the top half of the PL table for most of the season, and too much of the narrative on here is about doom and gloom. That's what irritates me. You know where the club is currently with respect to its history. We're not going to have too many top half finishes (and might not get one this season). We'll have even fewer European qualifications (it's still a possibility this season).
Some of the football has been stunning this season too -- the two consecutive games against Bournemouth and Newcastle were as good as they get.
But, as I said, it's dawned on me this is the new normal: lots of fans that think they know better than Bloom, whichever manager is in charge, and that if only they were given the reins things will be better. I'd rather trust in Tony, and in whatever decision he makes on managers, the team around the club, player recruitment, and so on -- he knows more than you and I. The best we can do is to try and understand why he makes the decisions he does.

That’s fair, but to be honest, whilst accepting everything you say, I’ve enjoyed it much less, perhaps I was spoilt by RdZ and the end of GP, but IMO, our style of play is poor, unstructured and at times complete chaos. Yesterday was amazing, but we weren’t great, and individual brilliance won it.

This is the weakest PL (again IMO), and we should be at least 6th (never thought I’d say that), but some of our play/tactics has been baffling. Sure we’ve had injuries, but if we had resemblance of any defensive structure out of possession it would be a lot easier for the incoming players. We haven’t. The ridiculous persistence of regaining possession high up, and condensing the field is pure nonsense and despite it not working, we’ve persisted and then got caught out. Yesterday we were deeper.

Newcastle away was excellent, one of the few times we looked defensively solid, and arguably Chelsea at home, but Bournemouth, best game of the season we were lucky.

I don’t think it’s unusual for supporters to think they know better or want certain players, but the business model is certainly successful, so as you say difficult to argue from that perspective.

Edit - re 124 years, that was then and this is now, it doesn’t make sense to compare the current against history, as we are now at a different table. We are an established top 10 team, not a run of the mill division 3 side

 

[Guinness Boy]

Do tell?

Obviously I can’t name names but there are others on NSC who will also know.

But if you think Tony’s targets are “just try and finish in the top ten and get the odd cup run” you’re very much mistaken so perhaps you can justify that thought process?

 

[1066familyman]

Obviously I can’t name names but there are others on NSC who will also know.

But if you think Tony’s targets are “just try and finish in the top ten and get the odd cup run” you’re very much mistaken so perhaps you can justify that thought process?

His long term targets likely will be regular European football, yes. That's great! We certainly belong in this league now and should fear no one.

However, I'd be very surprised if he wasn't happy with exactly what you crudely put, this season at least.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

His long term targets likely will be regular European football, yes. That's great! We certainly belong in this league now and should fear no one.

However, I'd be very surprised if he wasn't happy with exactly what you crudely put, this season at least.

Wasn’t he quite bullish at Cheltenham about our chances, so whilst we still have a chance, if we end up with nothing, he will be a little disappointed I would suggest.