Lower league Pompey

[hans kraay fan club]

Someone has done some selective editing then, because transcribed above, it suggests he talks about getting back in the Championship in the same breath as going to support H&W.

You three are arguing over semantics as far as I can see. Whatever that fan meant, it is certainly arrogant, and I think that is something we can all agree on!

Oh and this is a real bug bear of mine:
Surely that is "a choice" (of two options) as opposed to "two choices".

Yes. HKFC did a bit of selective editing. Here's what was originally written. "Next, either start up an "AFC Portsmouth" selling them the now worthless land or get the fans to support Havant and Waterlooville Hawks, who, not being based on the island, will have much more room to grow and develop. Yes we'll have to start at the bottom but it will be worth it when we make it back to the championship in 10-15 years."

The starting at the bottom bit clearly refers to the phoenix club option because, as I just pointed out, H&W is not at the bottom of the football pyramid. I agree it's clumsily written but actual words make no sense otherwise.

Er, with all due respect, did I f***.


Here's the full quote:

Next, either start up an "AFC Portsmouth" selling them the now worthless land or get the fans to support Havant and Waterlooville Hawks, who, not being based on the island, will have much more room to grow and develop. Yes we'll have to start at the bottom but it will be worth it when we make it back to the championship in 10-15 years.

Its totally transparent. It is not even in the slightest bit ambiguous. He's saying that they can 'start again' (and get back to the Championship in 10 years) and that there are two ways they could go about this - by a) starting a new club, or by b) stealing the identity of an existing one.

 

[Gwylan]

You three are arguing over semantics as far as I can see. Whatever that fan meant, it is certainly arrogant, and I think that is something we can all agree on!

Oh and this is a real bug bear of mine:
Surely that is "a choice" (of two options) as opposed to "two choices".

I don't think it's all that arrogant. Saying get the fans to support another team may be ascribing himself with extraordinary powers so, yes, that's a bit egotistical. But I don't think forming an AFC Portsmouth and dreaming of the Championship is - I'm sure it's what all fans would do.

Don't see anything wrong with two choices. Here's the Oxford dictionary - yours is option 2, while mine is option 3 - both are valid.

noun
an act of choosing between two or more possibilities:
the choice between good and evil
[mass noun] the right or ability to choose:
I had to do it, I had no choice
a range of possibilities from which one or more may be chosen:
you can have a sofa made in a choice of forty fabrics
a thing or person which is chosen:
this disk drive is the perfect choice for your computer

 

[Driver8]

Abso bloody lutely!

I can't believe we haven't followed the example of Reading who are only selling from the Madjeski ticket office to Portsmouth Fans. There may have been database issues but that could have been overcome by stating, 'produce your season ticket or membership on entry at the AMEX or no entry'. Not an ideal solution but better than no controls.

So as I see it, Brighton will probably join the list of creditors & get a few pennies in the pound several years down the line? What happens if some of their more neanderthals cause 1000's of pounds worth of damage? We have everything to lose & nothing to gain.

The only possible plus? Have we paid them out for the ticket sales from last August? Hopefully not. At least have a sizable 'down payment' for the inevitable default.

None if us know what Albion agreed with Portsmouth. They may have paid in advance.

 

[Acker79]

I have to say, I read it as starting from scratch with pompey to get back to the championship OR going to support H&W.

I think 'starting from the bottom' can reply to either, with 'the bottom' being hyperbole and 'getting back to the championship' is referring to the pompey fans, who would hope for success for whichever option they take. Positive thinking or arrogance? Since there's no timeframe, I'm leaning towards the former.

It is this that grates so much with me, the plaintive pleas from the 'helpless' fans. Surely BHA proved that fans are not helpless, it was the fans that discovered the changes to the articles of association and delved deeper into the finances, it was the fans that got active and brought the Albion's plight to national attention and finally got the authorities involved, and it was a fan that finally got rid of Archer and Belotti. This was of course all followed up by a decade long campaign that finally got us to Falmer, the fans can even take on the government if they want! I'm sick of pompey fans whinging that it's not their fault and they are powerless to do anything, they just couldn't be bothered and now it all appears to be too little, too late. Even now at this late stage where is the action? where is the campaigning? where is the rallying of support? Absolutely BLOODY NOWHERE.

And we did it with little regard to league position, from what I recall. The threat of losing points and the resulting relegation didn't stop us. We didn't cling to what is now league one as some inherent right, we took point deductions that ruined any hope of staying up in an effort to save our club in the long term.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

And the award for the most pointless thread hijack goes to ...........

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

None if us know what Albion agreed with Portsmouth. They may have paid in advance.

*splutter*

 

[Mellotron]

I think the pompey fan is seeing wherever H&W are as the bottom of the pyramid.

 

[Dirk Gently]

The clarify some of the above comments, a "phoenix" Portsmouth wouldn't start at the very bottom of the pyramid. If the Leagues Committee of the FA assesses them to be a "continuation of a previous club" (very likely) then they would be assigned the most appropriate league level to start in, based on ground facilities and anticipated crowd levels. This is to avoid the sort of problems encountered with AFC Wimbledon "swamping" tiny clubs - for instance with a crowd of 1342 at Shoreham FC. Yes, the money was good for Shoreham, but the crowd control problems were immense.

If they get Fratton Park or groundshare at H&W, then the smart money is on them starting at Conference South level.

 

[Gwylan]

ER, with all due respect, did I f***.


Here's the full quote:



Its totally transparent. It is not in teh slightest bit ambiguous. He's saying that the can 'start again' and that there are two ways they could go about this - by a) starting a new club, or by b) stealing the identity of an existing one.

That's what I mean by selective editing. You interpret "go and support" as "stealing the identity". I think that's a far-fetched interpretation.

If they pitched up at H&W wearing Portsmouth shirts, singing Portsmouth songs - yes, absolutely unacceptable. If they turned up to get behind H&W I really see nothing wrong with that. Nor would I see anything wrong if a few hundred started supporting Brighton.

Judging by your location, you probably come into contact with a few of these nutters and I think you're ready to think the worst of anybody

 

[Dirk Gently]

None if us know what Albion agreed with Portsmouth. They may have paid in advance.

Don't forget that payment for tickets is a "football debt" so under the Football Creditors rules Albion will be entitled to 100% of this money under any CVA. So they won't just be any other creditor.

Actually getting it could quite well be a different thing, though - which is presumably Reading's philosophy on this.

 

[Pinkie Brown]

None if us know what Albion agreed with Portsmouth.

We have no idea what has been agreed. Agreed.

They may have paid in advance.

If Portsmouth have paid in advance, its probably been in nine pound notes.

 

[severnside gull]

a little titbit for your delectation on this fine sunny morning - I hope it will cheer you on your way

Portsmouth FC's former Chief Executive (sacked last week) David Lampitt is currently in Genoa "chasing £300K which MAY be owed for the transfer of Kevin-Prince Boateng in 2010. The administrator said: ‘We are trying desperately to get hold of that – there was a sell-on fee that we need to get the appropriate information on, which hasn’t been forthcoming and a deferred part of the transfer fee was due.’


Not a single hint of irony or remorse at the situation they have left other clubs in or that Lampitt, having been made redundant, will doubtless be claiming a substantial fee plus expenses (he was on over £30K a week and he won't be staying in a 2 star hotel for certain) for this little errand. Never mind - while he is there, if he just hops down the coast to Bari he can talk to them about the £1.5m due on the transfer he oversaw of Erik Husseklepp just last summer. Of course hopefully they will get what they are owed direct from Birmingham City if a permanent deal is confirmed at the end of the season (and if BCFC are still trading - not a gimme so watch this space if they fail to get promotion).




As a (pertinent) aside - will this little jaunt reveal that the relevant monies were in fact paid but into third party accounts overseas?
Word is that there is every chance it was, but if so don't expect the administrator or anyone else to shout it from the rooftops. You will only know because of the sudden deafening silence

 

[Gwylan]

The clarify some of the above comments, a "phoenix" Portsmouth wouldn't start at the very bottom of the pyramid. If the Leagues Committee of the FA assesses them to be a "continuation of a previous club" (very likely) then they would be assigned the most appropriate league level to start in, based on ground facilities and anticipated crowd levels. This is to avoid the sort of problems encountered with AFC Wimbledon "swamping" tiny clubs - for instance with a crowd of 1342 at Shoreham FC. Yes, the money was good for Shoreham, but the crowd control problems were immense.

If they get Fratton Park or groundshare at H&W, then the smart money is on them starting at Conference South level.

Getting away from semantics. How would that work. Would there be an extra team relegated from Conf South?

 

[Dirk Gently]

Getting away from semantics. How would that work. Would there be an extra team relegated from Conf South?

Depends on the timing - there might be a vacancy in the Championship to fill when they go bust, so everyone at Conf South or above would move up one place t fill that - but that needs the relegation and phoenix club to happen at the same time.

In practice they'd either hope someone in Conf Sout goes bust or gets expelled (not that rare) or maybe reduce the number of clubs to be promted to Conf South by one.

 

[Pinkie Brown]

Don't forget that payment for tickets is a "football debt" so under the Football Creditors rules Albion will be entitled to 100% of this money under any CVA. So they won't just be any other creditor.

Actually getting it could quite well be a different thing, though - which is presumably Reading's philosophy on this.

The ruling about football debts first is under challenge by HMCR. In any case, the money may not be there no matter what. That old cliche about not being able to get blood out of a stone could well be the case. By Trevor Birchs own admission, the debts are eye watering with more coming to light every day. There's so many creditors owed so much, despite the FA Rules, there simply may not be the scraps to pay everyone in full who's been knocked by Pompey.

 

[Dirk Gently]

The ruling about football debts first is under challenge by HMCR.

Indeed, but that will take a while to be resolved, and almost certainly won't be a retrospective judgement. In any case, the report on the DCMS enquiry into the governance of football has committed to the removal of FCR, by legislation if necessary. But agin that takes time.

There's so many creditors owed so much, despite the FA Rules, there simply may not be the scraps to pay everyone in full who's been knocked by Pompey.

Hence me saying "actually getting [the money] could quite well be a different thing, though...."

 

[Titanic]

...Nor would I see anything wrong if a few hundred started supporting Brighton.

as long as it's not that twat with the bell.

 

[severnside gull]

Depends on the timing - there might be a vacancy in the Championship to fill when they go bust, so everyone at Conf South or above would move up one place t fill that - but that needs the relegation and phoenix club to happen at the same time.

I believe there is something like a 28 day window from the collapse into liquidation, and the formation of the phoenix club to claim the golden share. No more than that I am sure which is why what one might term the true fans are well advanced with their Plan B. Whether it is realistic as they would still have to confirm a ground to play in is questionable but it is why I have always suggested in posts that they would aim to re-form at Conference South level and that would almost certainly be supported by the league (and by other clubs).

 

[Simster]

When Pompey go bust, Charlton will probably start running a free bus service from Pompey to the Valley before claiming that Portsmouth was always a Charlton area...

 

[Pinkie Brown]

The clarify some of the above comments, a "phoenix" Portsmouth wouldn't start at the very bottom of the pyramid. If the Leagues Committee of the FA assesses them to be a "continuation of a previous club" (very likely) then they would be assigned the most appropriate league level to start in, based on ground facilities and anticipated crowd levels. This is to avoid the sort of problems encountered with AFC Wimbledon "swamping" tiny clubs - for instance with a crowd of 1342 at Shoreham FC. Yes, the money was good for Shoreham, but the crowd control problems were immense.

When Aldershot & Wimbledon were slumming it in the lower leagues, they employed their own travelling stewards. As I remember, there wasn't too many horrendous problems. Granted, those teams potential fan base wasn't as high as a pontential 'AFC Portsmouth'.

I don't think its fair, a so called 'bigger club' should have a head start over a suposedly smaller club, but then I don't make the rules.