[Music] Martyn Ware (Heaven 17) v Rockstar (Grand Theft Auto)

[BBassic]

I think we're agreeing. I was saying that Ware is small fry, but doesn't want to be bullied because of that. His point is that the £7,500 is a pittance for the rights FOREVER and that they are making billions. £7,500 is about half the lowest end charge for licensing an existing song for a film. When was the last film that made 8 billion? Oh yeah, Never.

Martyn could buy two Oasis tickets with that money. The damned fool.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

You're absolutely right that Rockstar will make an enormous amount of profit from this game, but they've also built up an expectation that their games are worth playing and spending money on over years of delivering the highest quality games on the market. There is a lot of work that goes into creating culture for mass consumption and in this case, I'd much rather see a company like Rockstar build and deliver these AAA games that push the boundaries of the medium generate huge profits, than someone like Marvel/DC who repackage the same old superhero movie rubbish on a yearly basis (they made 6x Rockstar's revenue last year).

I can only speak for the book world but it's very standard practice to pay a one-off licensing fee for almost all additions that aren't written by the original author. I've seen fees for poems used as part of a text, and I think more aptly to this point, all images that are owned by someone else will receive a fee rather than royalties - even if they are central to the book (think coffee table books etc.). When you're creating a fully packaged product with multiple contributors, a flat-fee protects not only the publisher but the owner of the additional content. Their pay is guaranteed, the terms of use are final, and the publisher knows that in 10 years time (if the game is still being played like GTA V) it will still be a feature of the game.

I think the thing with this case is it will not part of the original soundtrack of GTA VI - that will be an original score of which I'm sure there'll be some kind of royalty agreement with the composer (though likely not based on sales of the game but sales of direct media). We're talking about the song being used as world building or set dressing, one of thousands of bits of similar media. For me, it'll be used in the same way that Sprunk is used in the game - should the designer of that logo be paid a royalty each time a character uses a Sprunk vending machine or sees an advert on a fake TV channel? With such a volume of contributors to the world, it would make no sense from a business perspective to have thousands of royalty agreements that would need to be managed in an ongoing function. The costs of administering it would be enormous!

It's not like Rockstar are attempting to pay anyone in exposure here, the artist would still receive a considerable fee for doing no additional work. Everyone is being paid for their work and the artist absolutely has the right to say no to the offer (which they have).

I'm not sure I'd point to Rockstar as an example of a games developer pushing the medium, in any sense other than scale. Although I will give them credit for putting more effort into the story etc. than many of the big developers and publishers who basically just put out the same crap on an annual basis to rake the money in ["ooh, more pixels! Yay!"]

Anyway, I don't see this as particularly complicated in the context of the whole game. You have a list of songs in the game, you have a list of songwriters, they could easily be paid some tiny amount per sale of the game along with the other external creatives. However people normally manage these things in the music industry, they manage to pay the various songwriters their dues for live performance and compilations etc. one way or another.

 

[marlowe]

I have him on ignore but wasn't our Swedish Potter stalker only allowed back on the condition he was only to comment on football threads?

He was on the point of introducing Ware's love of Sheffield Wednesday into the discussion until you interrupted him...

Martyn Ware: Why I love Sheffield Wednesday

Why Sheffield Wednesday?There was no choice: my grandad was around when the club was formed. In Sheffield, there’s only Wednesday or Wednesday reserves. I’ve n

www.thetimes.com

 

[Stato]

Martyn could buy two Oasis tickets with that money. The damned fool.

Given that he's a Sheffield Wednesday fan, hasn't he suffered enough?

 

[Stato]

He was on the point of introducing Ware's love of Sheffield Wednesday into the discussion until you interrupted him...

Martyn Ware: Why I love Sheffield Wednesday

Why Sheffield Wednesday?There was no choice: my grandad was around when the club was formed. In Sheffield, there’s only Wednesday or Wednesday reserves. I’ve n

www.thetimes.com

Beat me to it. Damn you.

 

[Anger]

Given that he's a Sheffield Wednesday fan, hasn't he suffered enough?

I see it the other way.

Given that he’s a Sheffield Wednesday fan, shouldn’t he suffer more?

 

[Albion my Albion]

No, I'd steal a moped and ramp over a canal. Ideally.

Me too. If it didn't appear too scary.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Martyn Ware's podcast has some decent episodes. You might also get a feel for why he might turn a huge company down for such a low amount if you gave it a listen. instead of dismissing him as stupid or something.

 

[marlowe]

I see it the other way.

Given that he’s a Sheffield Wednesday fan, shouldn’t he suffer more?

Now that this has morphed into a football thread it perhaps allows @Han Solo to re-enter the discussion without unduly upsetting anyone.

 

[Mellotron]

I think we're agreeing. I was saying that Ware is small fry, but doesn't want to be bullied because of that. His point is that the £7,500 is a pittance for the rights FOREVER and that they are making billions. £7,500 is about half the lowest end charge for licensing an existing song for a film. When was the last film that made 8 billion? Oh yeah, Never.

It's only rights within that specific game forever, right..?

They aren't paying £7,500, they're paying £22,500 (3 x £7,500).

When was the last film that had 400+ songs?

 

[BBassic]

When was the last film that had 400+ songs?

Everything, Everywhere, All At Once.

Checkmate.

 

[pocketseagull]

Is be interested to know if said artist was also against Spotify?

I'd hazard a guess that he's probably not a fan. Spotify is rightfully reviled amongst musicians as they pay a pittance, meanwhile the CEO lives the life of riley.

 

[Wozza]

Is be interested to know if said artist was also against Spotify? Spotifys share price has grown hugely over the last 18 months, on the back of multiple price increases for customers. However, the amount paid to artists hasn't increased, it's all just turned into profit for Spotify and the shares have exploded as a result.

He described Spotify's rates as "pitiful" in the Tweet here:

[Music] - Martyn Ware (Heaven 17) v Rockstar (Grand Theft Auto)

Tweets tell the story. Twitter/X is now full of 1000s of American no-marks saying things like... Fair play to Martyn for sticking up for the value of his work. Apparently GTA VI will have 400+ songs. Probably would lead to exposure among da kidz. Then again, so has this spat.

www.northstandchat.com

 

[BBassic]

I'd hazard a guess that he's probably not a fan. Spotify is rightfully reviled amongst musicians as they pay a pittance, meanwhile the CEO lives the life of riley.

And Spotify isn't even the worse paying one. Last I checked they were mid-tier. YouTube Music pay the least.

It's a pretty awful business all around absolutely engorging itself on this idea that for artists 'exposure' is better than pounds in their bank account.

I made the decision at the start of this year that if I like an album I'll go buy it from their bandcamp, if they have one. Most of that money, 85% to 90%, goes to the artist. Or their label if they're signed.

 

[AIT76]

I'd hazard a guess that he's probably not a fan. Spotify is rightfully reviled amongst musicians as they pay a pittance, meanwhile the CEO lives the life of riley.

1500+ full streams of an album are needed to cover one physical sale.

 

[ROSM]

As long as he isn't crushed by the wheels of the digital gaming industry (whoop whoo)

His response should have been to tell them 'this is mine '

 

[El Presidente]

I'd hazard a guess that he's probably not a fan. Spotify is rightfully reviled amongst musicians as they pay a pittance, meanwhile the CEO lives the life of riley.

What’s Ian Broudie got to do with it?

 

[jcdenton08]

I think we're agreeing. I was saying that Ware is small fry, but doesn't want to be bullied because of that. His point is that the £7,500 is a pittance for the rights FOREVER and that they are making billions. £7,500 is about half the lowest end charge for licensing an existing song for a film. When was the last film that made 8 billion? Oh yeah, Never.

How many films feature 600+ licensed songs? This is the rumoured number for GTA VI. Video games are a law unto themselves

 

[London Irish]

Martyn is a great fella - sound politics and great back catalogue, looking forward to their next gig - they always play in and around Brighton fairly regularly and now without the GTA riches I assume that won't change!

 

[London Irish]

Sounds to me like he was quite interested but not happy with the money

This is a guy who doesn't want 150 million new people to hear his music because he's not getting quick money for it.

Barely a musician, more of a shite capitalist.

lol your takes are hilarious - not getting ripped off by capitalism is now capitalist apparently