Omar Deghayes......re-arrested.....oh really !!

[BigGully]

It was the Spanish intelligence service who wrongly identified Omar Deghayes as the Chechen rebel, Abu Walid. The Americans originally believed the Spanish authorities, but now appear to accept that they were wrong.

Abu Walid has been dead for three years.

What you actually said was this.............

He was arrested in Pakistan, following action by bounty hunters. The Americans believed he was one of the individuals who appears in a videotape produced by Chechen rebels. The individual in the videotape was subsequently identified to be a Chechen called Abu Walid. The Americans were not interested in listening to that. Omar Deghayes has never been to Chechnya. He is totally innocent.

Now you gotta be consistent.....

Was it the Spanish, Americans or the Spanish and now I guess that we have arrested him ........ the British.......hmmmmm


I hope your not an apologist for him irrespective of what he may of done .......!!!!

 

[clapham_gull]

What you actually said was this.............

He was arrested in Pakistan, following action by bounty hunters. The Americans believed he was one of the individuals who appears in a videotape produced by Chechen rebels. The individual in the videotape was subsequently identified to be a Chechen called Abu Walid. The Americans were not interested in listening to that. Omar Deghayes has never been to Chechnya. He is totally innocent.

Now you gotta be consistent.....

Was it the Spanish, Americans or the Spanish and now I guess that we have arrested him ........ the British.......hmmmmm


I hope your not an apologist for him irrespective of what he may of done .......!!!!

In all fairness - having a bit of read now myself, the Americans belief was because of information passed to them from the Spanish (on the basis of a mis indentification in a video) (*)

I don't know the timeline.

(*) British facial recognition experts identified the person in the video as someone else, conclusively it seems.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

In all fairness - having a bit of read now myself, the Americans belief was because of information passed to them from the Spanish (on the basis of a mis indentification in a video) (*)

I don't know the timeline.

(*) British facial recognition experts identified the person in the video as someone else, conclusively it seems.

Correct.

 

[Beach Hut]

Good grief - things will only get better.......................

 

[BigGully]

Correct.

Bit cheeky there LB...........that is the up to date information, yes, but you NEVER intimated that the Spanish Intelligent Services were involved at anytime during this debate.

You catigorically said that it was the intelligent services/bounty hunters in Pakistan, I cant recall you ever mentioning the Spanish.

Your blinding support is becoming increasingly flawed.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

The Spanish involvement is very well documented, BigGully. It's been on the front page of the Save Omar campaign's own website for years.

http://www.save-omar.org.uk/

 

[Arthur]

There is no smoke without fire.

If these people are suspected of terrorism then they shouldn't be allowed to roam free in our society until they have proven their innocence.

You can't take risks with these people.

 

[BigGully]

The Spanish involvement is very well documented, BigGully. It's been on the front page of the Save Omar campaign's own website for years.

http://www.save-omar.org.uk/

You NEVER mentioned this important Spanish link once NOT once LB, why not ??!!

Was it because it might of highlited the Madrid Bombings link to your man ??

The link to the 'Save Omar' website mentions it, but that is todays website its current news.

It would be interesting when prior to today this Spanish Link was highlited on this 'Save Omar' website ??

 

[Lord Bracknell]

If the case against Omar Deghayes amounts to nothing more than an allegation that he is Abu Walid, a Chechen rebel who died in Chechnya in April 2004, it shouldn't take long to prove his innocence.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

You NEVER mentioned this important Spanish link once NOT once LB, why not ??!!

Was it because it might of highlited the Madrid Bombings link to your man ??

The link to the 'Save Omar' website mentions it, but that is todays website its current news.

It would be interesting when prior to today this Spanish Link was highlited on this 'Save Omar' website ??

Even the Spanish authorities don't think he was linked to the Madrid bombings. They happened in 2004.

He was arrested in 2001 and was in Guantanamo at the time. Or don't you believe even that alibi?

 

[Franks Wild Years]

There is no smoke without fire.

If these people are suspected of terrorism then they shouldn't be allowed to roam free in our society until they have proven their innocence.

You can't take risks with these people.

"They don't like it up 'em, Capt Mainwaring".

 

[Spiros]

There is no smoke without fire.

If these people are suspected of terrorism then they shouldn't be allowed to roam free in our society until they have proven their innocence.

You can't take risks with these people.

There's some bollocks posted on this board but this is just about the cream of it. Are you George Bush in disguise?

In England, our principle is that you are INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty. I don't know this Deghayes bloke and I think he certainly has to come up with a good reason for being in the lawless border area of Pakistan and Afghanistan at the time he was, but I still believe the authorities have to prove he was up to no good.

So for your benefit - and the other vigilantes out there - the police have to prove Deghayes is guilty, not Deghayes prove he is innocent. I expect you'd just prefer the police to arrest anyone who looks a bit middle-eastern as they might be terrorists, after all 'you cant take chances with these people'.

 

[BigGully]

Even the Spanish authorities don't think he was linked to the Madrid bombings. They happened in 2004.

He was arrested in 2001 and was in Guantanamo at the time. Or don't you believe even that alibi?

Poor defense again, and you have chosen not to answer my query.

You should be aware that he can still be part of the planning of Spanish and other atrocities, prior to being detained in Guantanamo.

I will try again....

You NEVER mentioned the Spanish Authorities in any earlier quotes, however you changed your defense in the light of this information this morning.......why ??

was this news to you.....??

The 'Save Omar' website you referred to is current ( dated today ) therefore had to include the Spanish link, but it seems that there was NO mention of the Spanish Authorities in his case previously...........why ?

 

[BigGully]

There's some bollocks posted on this board but this is just about the cream of it. Are you George Bush in disguise?

In England, our principle is that you are INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty. I don't know this Deghayes bloke and I think he certainly has to come up with a good reason for being in the lawless border area of Pakistan and Afghanistan at the time he was, but I still believe the authorities have to prove he was up to no good.

So for your benefit - and the other vigilantes out there - the police have to prove Deghayes is guilty, not Deghayes prove he is innocent. I expect you'd just prefer the police to arrest anyone who looks a bit middle-eastern as they might be terrorists, after all 'you cant take chances with these people'.

Total misrepresentation of the sceptics view on here.

It aint a race thing by the way, its a Terrorism thing, which is important.

If as it seems that Omar is guilty of some involvement with Terrorism, I am personally unmoved by his detention in Guantanamo, irrespective of the legal procedure, however I accept that this might set a dangerous precedent.

But it does now seem that the authorities in Europe feel that they have the evidence that is required to convict Omar of quite grave terrorism acts.

So we will see........

Your frustration of the 'no smoke without fire' argument is then contridicted by yourself when you quote 'I think he certainly has to come up with a good reason for being in the lawless border area of Pakistan and Afghanistan at the time he was'.

No smoke without fire it is then eh....!!!

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Poor defense again, and you have chosen not to answer my query.

You should be aware that he can still be part of the planning of Spanish and other atrocities, prior to being detained in Guantanamo.

I will try again....

You NEVER mentioned the Spanish Authorities in any earlier quotes, however you changed your defense in the light of this information this morning.......why ??

was this news to you.....??

The 'Save Omar' website you referred to is current ( dated today ) therefore had to include the Spanish link, but it seems that there was NO mention of the Spanish Authorities in his case previously...........why ?

There's a hell of a lot of detail that I haven't mentioned. You'll just have to take my word that the involvement of the Spanish authorities isn't "today's news".

The family found out the "reason" Omar had been arrested when his lawyer was informed by the US authorities that Spanish intelligence possessed a video tape showing Chechen rebels in training and that the Spanish authorities were alleging that Omar Deghayes appeared in that tape.

That tape was then able to be scrutinised by experts and it was demonstrated beyond doubt that the individual alleged to be Omar Deghayes was, in fact, not him, but someone else - subsequently identified as Abu Walid, who died in 2004.

The ONLY case against Omar was the tape. The fact that it has been proven not to be him probably explains the willingness of the US authorities to release him. What has taken the time to achieve this has been the reluctance of the UK government in Blair's time to negotiate a deal with the Americans to accept UK non-citizen residents back into Britain. Brown has taken a different position, done the negotiations (which no doubt include a range of "safeguards") and only now has Omar been allowed back into the UK.

 

[Superphil]

So, anyway, why was he in a lawless part of Pakistan when he was 'captured'? Surely he just has to explain this and we can all have a nice Christmas.

He is innocent till proven otherwise, and has the right to remain silent. Of course, in this instance those two factors are working against each other. Come on Omar, tell us what's what then we can all get back to the footie.

 

[Arthur]

There's some bollocks posted on this board but this is just about the cream of it. Are you George Bush in disguise?

No, just someone who doesn't like having his country blown to bits.

 

[Porky]

What's the team line-up for tomorrow

 

[Spiros]

Total misrepresentation of the sceptics view on here.

It aint a race thing by the way, its a Terrorism thing, which is important.

If as it seems that Omar is guilty of some involvement with Terrorism, I am personally unmoved by his detention in Guantanamo, irrespective of the legal procedure, however I accept that this might set a dangerous precedent.

But it does now seem that the authorities in Europe feel that they have the evidence that is required to convict Omar of quite grave terrorism acts.

So we will see........

Your frustration of the 'no smoke without fire' argument is then contridicted by yourself when you quote 'I think he certainly has to come up with a good reason for being in the lawless border area of Pakistan and Afghanistan at the time he was'.

No smoke without fire it is then eh....!!!

No - I personally think he has a case to answer (though I'll happily admit I don't have all the facts) but in 5 years of detention the yanks have been unable to find anything to charge him with, so if our mob and the Spanish can't either then he should be released, whether we like it or not. Nothing wrong with watching/tailing people like him who are considered a possible danger, don't get me wrong, but to lock someone up for 5 years without even charging them, let alone a trial, is the behaviour you expect from 1980's South American juntas, not the self-appointed guardians of the free world.

 

[Spiros]

No, just someone who doesn't like having his country blown to bits.

And the fact that the Americans go around acting like world police when they're no better than anyone else - and our government align themselves with them - is what really puts our country at risk. Locking up so-called suspects on little or no evidence makes it much easier for the terrorists to recruit the next generation of 'home-grown' bombers