[News] Post Office Scandal -

[boik]

I know there are many IT'ers on here who have worked in software development and will be all too aware of the constraint triangle. Time, cost & quality.

I was not involved with Horizon but have seen countless government IT systems during my 35 years that delivered sub-optimal solutions due to the constraint triangle.

I could say more but OSA does not permit ....

I worked in IT in banking and insurance for my whole career. The gullibilty of upper management never failed to amaze me. Salesman would come in, give a flashy demo and the top bods would say "that looks fantastic, where do I sign". We on the shop floor would spend the next few years trying to get it to work in our environment. Oh for the days when we wrote our own software that did exactly what we wanted it to. I think the bottom line was perceived (never actual) savings, and the ability to blame another company when things went wrong.

 

[Boroseagull]

usually followed by some ‘high flyer’ deciding to step back, retire, follow new paths (add whatever other lame excuse you wish) and set off into the sunset with a rather nice pension or golden hand shake which is paid for from the public purse .. and incredibly then walk into some other cosy high position elsewhere.

Lord it makes you sick to your guts.

Doesn't it just - and then, in Vennells case receive an honour! Noticed that Ed Davey was getting his excuses in early yesterday to anyone who would listen especially when it was pointed out to him that he refused to talk to 'Justice For Post Office Victims'.

My only complaint about the otherwise excellent 4 part serialisation is that ITV are keeping Alan Crozier's name out of it. I presume that is because he went from CE of The Post Office to become CEO of ITV.

Hate to say it, but the only organisation (if it can be called that) that has taken action against PV has been the Anglian Church who requested her to resign her duties.

 

[A mex eyecan]

Doesn't it just - and then, in Vennells case receive an honour! Noticed that Ed Davey was getting his excuses in early yesterday to anyone who would listen especially when it was pointed out to him that he refused to talk to 'Justice For Post Office Victims'.

My only complaint about the otherwise excellent 4 part serialisation is that ITV are keeping Alan Crozier's name out of it. I presume that is because he went from CE of The Post Office to become CEO of ITV.

Hate to say it, but the only organisation (if it can be called that) that has taken action against PV has been the Anglian Church who requested her to resign her duties.

Yes saw E Davey yesterday with his faux ‘ooh that’s awful ’ don’t look at me comments.

Wouldn’t it be lovely for each and everyone held to account (prosecuted if rightful) who obstructed the investigation, those who just simply lied, as well as those who sat impassively whilst these poor poor victims were screwed into the dirt. SCUMBAGS all.

 

[Talby]

Doesn't it just - and then, in Vennells case receive an honour! Noticed that Ed Davey was getting his excuses in early yesterday to anyone who would listen especially when it was pointed out to him that he refused to talk to 'Justice For Post Office Victims'.

My only complaint about the otherwise excellent 4 part serialisation is that ITV are keeping Alan Crozier's name out of it. I presume that is because he went from CE of The Post Office to become CEO of ITV.

Hate to say it, but the only organisation (if it can be called that) that has taken action against PV has been the Anglian Church who requested her to resign her duties.

Yeah…that’s been remarked upon a few times. Seems odd.

 

[kevo]

I worked in IT in banking and insurance for my whole career. The gullibilty of upper management never failed to amaze me. Salesman would come in, give a flashy demo and the top bods would say "that looks fantastic, where do I sign". We on the shop floor would spend the next few years trying to get it to work in our environment. Oh for the days when we wrote our own software that did exactly what we wanted it to. I think the bottom line was perceived (never actual) savings, and the ability to blame another company when things went wrong.

The other side to that is I company I worked for spent millions on developing a new bespoke system. It got to the stage where the beta version was up and running, detailed manuals were produced and we had presentations on how to use it and a team (which I was part of) to test it in a live environment.

Went to a presentation in January where we were told it would 100% launch in April. April comes and goes and nothing happens. And then we all get a message to say the project was being abondoned because there were key things they couldn't get to work.

Five years in development, millions spent, and they just went back to the old system which was built 20 years ago! And are still using it I think.

Perhaps that's what they should have done with Horizon.

 

[HeaviestTed]

The other side to that is I company I worked for spent millions on developing a new bespoke system. It got to the stage where the beta version was up and running, detailed manuals were produced and we had presentations on how to use it and a team (which I was part of) to test it in a live environment.

Went to a presentation in January where we were told it would 100% launch in April. April comes and goes and nothing happens. And then we all get a message to say the project was being abondoned because there were key things they couldn't get to work.

Five years in development, millions spent, and they just went back to the old system which was built 20 years ago! And are still using it I think.

Perhaps that's what they should have done with Horizon.

A tale as old as IT - keep the old system and replace bit by bit until you have a new system.

Trigger knew it in only fools and horses, people laughed when he said he had changed all the bits of his broom but it was a new working broom.

 

[Beach Hut]

Having watched this at what point will the two main companies responsible for this gross mis-carriage of justice actually be called to account ?

 

[kevo]

Having watched this at what point will the two main companies responsible for this gross mis-carriage of justice actually be called to account ?

Lewes bonfire has some potential new people to burn this year. The two POL women need to be made to account for their actions but Fujitsu equally complicit.

This will hopefully haunt Ed Davey come election time.

 

[Fungus]

I worked in IT in banking and insurance for my whole career. The gullibilty of upper management never failed to amaze me. Salesman would come in, give a flashy demo and the top bods would say "that looks fantastic, where do I sign". We on the shop floor would spend the next few years trying to get it to work in our environment. Oh for the days when we wrote our own software that did exactly what we wanted it to. I think the bottom line was perceived (never actual) savings, and the ability to blame another company when things went wrong.

The other side to that is I company I worked for spent millions on developing a new bespoke system. It got to the stage where the beta version was up and running, detailed manuals were produced and we had presentations on how to use it and a team (which I was part of) to test it in a live environment.

Went to a presentation in January where we were told it would 100% launch in April. April comes and goes and nothing happens. And then we all get a message to say the project was being abondoned because there were key things they couldn't get to work.

Five years in development, millions spent, and they just went back to the old system which was built 20 years ago! And are still using it I think.

Perhaps that's what they should have done with Horizon.

C’mon guys, name and shame the companies! Showed these posts to my wife, as we both worked in IT for many years. The story is so familiar, you feel the whole Horizon debacle was simply inevitable. We laugh every time Vennells uses the word “robust”.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Lewes bonfire has some potential new people to burn this year. The two POL women need to be made to account for their actions but Fujitsu equally complicit.

This will hopefully haunt Ed Davey come election time.

 

[Vin]

Having watched this at what point will the two main companies responsible for this gross mis-carriage of justice actually be called to account ?

Never

 

[portlock seagull]

Having watched this at what point will the two main companies responsible for this gross mis-carriage of justice actually be called to account ?

As said elsewhere, never. Some of the greatest mass murders in history got away with it. f***ing a few hundred of their livelihoods is a mere footnote by comparison. If you wanted real justice, you’d have to be prepared to dish it out yourself and pay consequences thereafter I guess. A shame there’s not a crowdfund just giving page dedicated to these wretched people and an OAP war veteran ready to do some laps to kick start donations

 

[A mex eyecan]

Never

sadly I think you are 100% right

 

[Eeyore]

As said elsewhere, never. Some of the greatest mass murders in history got away with it. f***ing a few hundred of their livelihoods is a mere footnote by comparison. If you wanted real justice, you’d have to be prepared to dish it out yourself and pay consequences thereafter I guess. A shame there’s not a crowdfund just giving page dedicated to these wretched people and an OAP war veteran ready to do some laps to kick start donations

It's not really about money now and the media shouldn't stop until the right people are in the dock. The PO needs to know that their liars can't sleep easy.

 

[portlock seagull]

It's not really about money now and the media shouldn't stop until the right people are in the dock. The PO needs to know that their liars can't sleep easy.

It’s about money if you’re one of the poor bastards. The right people will never be in the dock as others said. Too powerful. Too part of the establishment.

 

[Vin]

sadly I think you are 100% right

The establishment have been kicking the can down the road for 20 odd years. Ruthless, robbing fuckers

 

[METALMICKY]

I worked in IT in banking and insurance for my whole career. The gullibilty of upper management never failed to amaze me. Salesman would come in, give a flashy demo and the top bods would say "that looks fantastic, where do I sign". We on the shop floor would spend the next few years trying to get it to work in our environment. Oh for the days when we wrote our own software that did exactly what we wanted it to. I think the bottom line was perceived (never actual) savings, and the ability to blame another company when things went wrong.

In a previous life my job was to analyse the treatment patterns of dentists in England and Wales to detect poor quality work/over prescribing and/or outright fraud like claiming for work not done etc. When it came to the number crunching side of things the preferred tool was the data analysis software SPSS which served us pretty well.

However, our top boss then had the " flashy demo and salesman " for a product called Netmap which a lot of insurers and some law enforcement use. Much money was spent and lots of tedious training ensued. Nobody was convinced and it's demise was assured about a year later when some wag remarked " wouldn't it have been cheaper to buy Spirograph " since it's main output was pretty looking circular graphs!

 

[A mex eyecan]

years back when I owned my own company we completely outgrew Sage line 50 and so needed a system to give more in depth reporting and various other functionality.

we sent a brief to 5 potential providers, short listed to 2, finally made decision. 18 months into process and just 2 months away from go live it became apparent that many functions promised to us didn’t or wouldn’t work. I pulled the plug and threatened to sue for all costs incurred to that time. My threat became real and got as far as filing in court and day before they settled.

Imagine my being dumbstruck when having decided to instruct next preferred software provider and at third meeting the salesman from the original company turned up having starting work for the 2nd one. Unbelievably, he said he knew from outset that what we were expecting was never going to be delivered!

 

[Boroseagull]

Well things seem to be moving, albeit slowly with the Met police stating tonight that they are investigating persons involved in this disgusting scandal... Times on line headline tonight..............https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/post-office-horizon-scandal-staff-investigation-rjhpkjjdm

 

[Triggaaar]

People responsible should be prosecuted