[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[SouthSaxon]

'End policy of appeasement' — European foreign affairs chairs rebuke Trump's Russia stance

"Negotiating with the war criminal Putin is evidently futile," a statement signed by officials from eight countries said.

kyivindependent.com

Glad to see the UK on this, and excellent that it’s being called out for what it is, appeasement.

 

[raymondo]

Per this article on Ukraine's Intel unit, they have help from within Russia ('Russian traitors' he calls them ) setting up navigation points to help Ukrainian deep strikes.

‘More traitors in Russia’ — Ukrainian intel officer shares secrets of recent deep-strike drone successes

The aerial war between Russia and Ukraine is explosive in every sense. But beyond the physical dimension, it is also a battle of morale and information. Both sides are locked in a continuous back-and-forth of public statements and dramatic videos claiming hits and damage to the other side. There’s

kyivindependent.com

 

[raymondo]

'End policy of appeasement' — European foreign affairs chairs rebuke Trump's Russia stance

"Negotiating with the war criminal Putin is evidently futile," a statement signed by officials from eight countries said.

kyivindependent.com

Some clever wording in there "Negotiating with the war criminal Putin is evidently futile; his main objective is to undermine and humiliate our ally, the United States."

The message is: 'Trump, you are an humiliation, and have been undermined to such an extent that you look like a Russian asset'.
Of course, Trump is a willing participant, but I think they worded it well.

I wonder if other countries just weren't available to meet and sign.

 

[A1X]

Wonder if there’s any value in Zelensky promising Trump a gold statue in central Kyiv if he helps beat the Russians? It’s the kind of shit that would appeal to him.

 

[raymondo]

Don't think much of his stand-up comedic delivery routine.

It's so hard to watch that arrogant prick. I mean, we need to,we must never forget what he claimed, but it's vomit inducing each time

 

[raymondo]

Wonder if there’s any value in Zelensky promising Trump a gold statue in central Kyiv if he helps beat the Russians? It’s the kind of shit that would appeal to him.

Or a golf course near the front line... something worth defending with Patriots

 

[Bodian]

Wonder if there’s any value in Zelensky promising Trump a gold statue in central Kyiv if he helps beat the Russians? It’s the kind of shit that would appeal to him.

Trump Tower, Kyiv

 

[peterward]

Oh FFS two tier Keir.

This in The Times, is really disappointing if true. More grandstanding and tough talk followed by weakness and timidity.

This is like a red rag to a bull for Putin.

https://archive.ph/Gfs4Q

 

[raymondo]

Oh FFS two tier Keir.

This in The Times, is really disappointing if true. More grandstanding and tough talk followed by weakness and timidity.

This is like a red rag to a bull for Putin.

https://archive.ph/Gfs4Q

What a messy situation, assuming the article has represented it correctly.
- Comments like this just show weakness IMO, let's-not-upset-Russia crap. "It is hoped that this change in military support for Ukraine could see Moscow move its red lines to achieve a peace deal". Why are we talking like that, Russia DOES NOT own Ukraine. Russia will break the peace deal anyway
- Then there's sensible stuff like using UK, French air cover to 'close the skies'. Not sure it fully closes them but can help shoot down the missiles that Russia will launch when they make up a reason to break any ceasefire.
- Then the Brits seem to blame the French who wanted more troops on the ground blimey, we're allies, Ukraine needs a united Europe with them.

I am sure they are having difficult discussions but airing these half baked solutions, and differences publicly is unhelpful as it shows cracks to Putin.

 

[fly high]

What a messy situation, assuming the article has represented it correctly.
- Comments like this just show weakness IMO, let's-not-upset-Russia crap. "It is hoped that this change in military support for Ukraine could see Moscow move its red lines to achieve a peace deal". Why are we talking like that, Russia DOES NOT own Ukraine. Russia will break the peace deal anyway
- Then there's sensible stuff like using UK, French air cover to 'close the skies'. Not sure it fully closes them but can help shoot down the missiles that Russia will launch when they make up a reason to break any ceasefire.
- Then the Brits seem to blame the French who wanted more troops on the ground blimey, we're allies, Ukraine needs a united Europe with them.

I am sure they are having difficult discussions but airing these half baked solutions, and differences publicly is unhelpful as it shows cracks to Putin.

Europe have been doing this since day one. Can't send tanks, missiles, planes etc, we don't want to upset Putin. We have constantly shown weakness. Ooh President Biden must tell us what we are allowed to do, a doddery senile old man.

 

[raymondo]

Europe have been doing this since day one. Can't send tanks, missiles, planes etc, we don't want to upset Putin. We have constantly shown weakness. Ooh President Biden must tell us what we are allowed to do, a doddery senile old man.

Yes, it's very frustrating. I understand it's tricky with the EU (27 including Orban and Fico??) and UK having to get agreement, but some countries just need to take the strong lead now. I would hope to see Poland, Baltics and Finland heavily involved in such leadership of Europe, because if Russia keeps making progress in Ukraine then, someday, they are next.
Yep, and the history is that Europe did depend on US leadership for decades - and one thing I agreed on with Trump is that European countries MUST increase their defence spend within the NATO alliance. I actually think US involvement in NATO is dead (unless the US were attacked of course!), and Europe needs to get it's act together faster.
I'm rambling...what time does the game start?

 

[peterward]

Was expecting they might talk in a back room, not pull up a couple of chairs in the middle of St Peters Basilica!

 

[Eric the meek]

What a messy situation, assuming the article has represented it correctly.
- Comments like this just show weakness IMO, let's-not-upset-Russia crap. "It is hoped that this change in military support for Ukraine could see Moscow move its red lines to achieve a peace deal". Why are we talking like that, Russia DOES NOT own Ukraine. Russia will break the peace deal anyway
- Then there's sensible stuff like using UK, French air cover to 'close the skies'. Not sure it fully closes them but can help shoot down the missiles that Russia will launch when they make up a reason to break any ceasefire.
- Then the Brits seem to blame the French who wanted more troops on the ground blimey, we're allies, Ukraine needs a united Europe with them.

I am sure they are having difficult discussions but airing these half baked solutions, and differences publicly is unhelpful as it shows cracks to Putin.

That's the price of living in a liberal democracy with free media. It is difficult to keep any differences and arguments out of the public domain.

 

[peterward]

Ben Shapiro, conservative commentator and popular MAGA world voice, gives his closing comments on his Zelenskyy interview.

This is very encouraging and I hope truth penetrates the previous lying propaganda in US republicanism

 

[raymondo]

Ben Shapiro, conservative commentator and popular MAGA world voice, gives his closing comments on his Zelenskyy interview.

This is very encouraging and I hope truth penetrates the previous lying propaganda in US republicanism

And that's exactly why Trump, Vance, Musk etc (probably Orban, Fico too) will never visit, because they don't want their narrow, self-centered world view to be affected by the horrors of reality.

 

[Eric the meek]

'The Taurus missile is really good at blowing up bridges'.

Around 34:45, but when you have time, the whole interview is good.

 

[raymondo]

Henry Kissinger quote:
"The word will go out to the nations of the world that it may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."

 

[raymondo]

Mix of stuff in here:

Ukraine, US to start working on free trade zone, Shmyhal says

According to Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal, the parties also discussed "important political aspects" of the long-debated future minerals deal between Kyiv and Washington.

kyivindependent.com

 

[A1X]

Interesting I thought that there were no aides whispering in Trump's ears during the meeting with Zelensky, a sign that maybe directly talking to him without "interference" can bring results?

 

[raymondo]

Interesting I thought that there were no aides whispering in Trump's ears during the meeting with Zelensky, a sign that maybe directly talking to him without "interference" can bring results?

If only he would visit Ukraine .
Anyway, no shit Sherlock Trump, Putin's been doing this FOR YEARS. Are you really pretending you didn't know, are you jesting