[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Eric the meek]

It's high time we had a conspiracy theory on this forum.

Two images of Putin. One in seemingly good health, with a broad, Slavic head. The other aging, gaunt, sunken. Pay particular attention to the jawline.

First, the curated stock photo:

Russia says it cannot accept US peace plan for Ukraine ‘in its current form’

Moscow’s refusal highlights the limited progress Donald Trump has made on his promise to end the war

www.theguardian.com

Second, a still photo of a video of him in fatigues in Kursk.

Putin begins biggest Russian military call-up in years

Russia calls up 160,000 men aged 18-30 as it moves to expand the size of its military.

www.bbc.co.uk

(One of the replies asks if he forgot to put in his false teeth).

Are they the same person? Were the photos taken at around the same time, or were they taken at different stages of his life and health?
Was one of them taken after procedures to fill out his jawline?

I'm hoping for some quality replies......

 

[seagull_si]

Guardian left and BBC right

 

[raymondo]

Zeihan convinced Trump will leave NATO and first step could be the US vacating the position of Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, which de facto would mean... it's done as far as Europe's concerned, cos US forces cannot be commanded by another country (clear ?).
Also, Russian propaganda being repeated from the White House.
It's a short video.

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

It's high time we had a conspiracy theory on this forum.

Two images of Putin. One in seemingly good health, with a broad, Slavic head. The other aging, gaunt, sunken. Pay particular attention to the jawline.

First, the curated stock photo:

Russia says it cannot accept US peace plan for Ukraine ‘in its current form’

Moscow’s refusal highlights the limited progress Donald Trump has made on his promise to end the war

www.theguardian.com

Second, a still photo of a video of him in fatigues in Kursk.

Putin begins biggest Russian military call-up in years

Russia calls up 160,000 men aged 18-30 as it moves to expand the size of its military.

www.bbc.co.uk

(One of the replies asks if he forgot to put in his false teeth).

Are they the same person? Were the photos taken at around the same time, or were they taken at different stages of his life and health?
Was one of them taken after procedures to fill out his jawline?

I'm hoping for some quality replies......

There's been speculation for a few years that he has cancer. That would be consistent with the still taken from Kursk footage, where he looks really ill (). Would also cast light on Zelensky's recent comment...

Hope it's nothing too trivial!

 

[Eric the meek]

There's been speculation for a few years that he has cancer. That would be consistent with the still taken from Kursk footage, where he looks really ill (). Would also cast light on Zelensky's recent comment...

Hope it's nothing too trivial!

One Youtuber, Professor Tim Wilson, has at least twice speculated that the real Putin is already dead. In which case, his death has seemingly made bugger all difference to Russia's belligerence and violence towards the west.

Perhaps we should view this as a glimpse into one possible future for when Putin is no longer with us. There is no guarantee that things will improve.

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

One Youtuber, Professor Tim Wilson, has at least twice speculated that the real Putin is already dead. In which case, his death has seemingly made bugger all difference to Russia's belligerence and violence towards the west.

Perhaps we should view this as a glimpse into one possible future for when Putin is no longer with us. There is no guarantee that things will improve.

True, but we shouldn't deny ourselves any feelings of personal vengeance that may be available.

 

[SouthSaxon]

One Youtuber, Professor Tim Wilson, has at least twice speculated that the real Putin is already dead. In which case, his death has seemingly made bugger all difference to Russia's belligerence and violence towards the west.

Perhaps we should view this as a glimpse into one possible future for when Putin is no longer with us. There is no guarantee that things will improve.

It'd be the conspiracy of a lifetime to cover up Putin's death and just carry on with body doubles. Agreed that his death doesn't guarantee any significant change or improvement.

I've seen a few of Tim Wilson's videos, but he struck me as a bit of a crank and then I learned that he'd previously been a UKIP candidate. But perhaps he knows something we don't from his time at <checks notes> Moscow State Pedagogical University?

 

[raymondo]

One Youtuber, Professor Tim Wilson, has at least twice speculated that the real Putin is already dead. In which case, his death has seemingly made bugger all difference to Russia's belligerence and violence towards the west.

Perhaps we should view this as a glimpse into one possible future for when Putin is no longer with us. There is no guarantee that things will improve.

I'm pretty sure he's still alive, sadly.

 

[raymondo]

Fascinating from Phillips O'Brien

Sometimes historical developments are too shocking to fully comprehend while they are happening. Things occur that make little sense and as such they are often not faced directly and dissected in the way that they deserve. That is certainly the situation with the period of US-dominance globally and how America approached war. The United States since 1945 has arguably been the greatest hegemon in the history of the world. It possessed between one half (at the end of World War II) to a quarter of the world’s economic output. It was the globe’s technology leader—with by far the best equipped and most capable military, and was able to project force around the world in a way that no power before could even dream. It even had enormous soft power—as its culture and language became ubiquitous.

And the USA proceeded to lose almost every war that it chose to fight during this period of dominance. With the one exception of the First Gulf War (1991-1992), when the US has deployed its military power it has almost always failed to achieve anything like its strategic/political objectives. Its wars have ended either ignominiously with scenes of total failure (See Saigon and Kabul), or at best partial success (Korea). Indeed the greater the US application of force, the more likely the war would be a disaster—such as in Vietnam and the War on Terror.

​

US war-winning strategies in action—Saigon 1975 (right) and Kabul 2022 (left)
The fact that the US has so disastrously misused and frittered away its period of dominance deserves deep interrogation. It also calls into question the whole way the US government, from the Pentagon to the Presidents, have intellectually approached the concept of war. One thing that seems clear, is that the US has very little idea how to win wars, and has been consistently capable of losing them.

I have been working on a book over the last year and a half, with looks at the larger concepts of War and Power, and tries to analyse why they are so regularly misunderstood and misanalyzed. Here is the provisional cover and title (though it could all still be changed). The book will be released in late August. Its coming out with Penguin in UK and Basic Books in the USA.

​

One of its arguments is that war is often approached as a battle-winning exercise, whereas winning battles is one of the poorest ways to understand the process of winning wars.

The USA is the poster child of this problem.

What the US has done since 1945, while its regularly been losing wars, is to construct arguably the most awesome battle-winning machine in world history. ...

 

[Eric the meek]

It'd be the conspiracy of a lifetime to cover up Putin's death and just carry on with body doubles. Agreed that his death doesn't guarantee any significant change or improvement.

I've seen a few of Tim Wilson's videos, but he struck me as a bit of a crank and then I learned that he'd previously been a UKIP candidate. But perhaps he knows something we don't from his time at <checks notes> Moscow State Pedagogical University?

That's good info. It certainly raises questions about him. Being a crank doesn't necessarily rule anyone out, but being a UKIP candidate? That's a hard core crank.

 

[fly high]

It's high time we had a conspiracy theory on this forum.

Two images of Putin. One in seemingly good health, with a broad, Slavic head. The other aging, gaunt, sunken. Pay particular attention to the jawline.

First, the curated stock photo:

Russia says it cannot accept US peace plan for Ukraine ‘in its current form’

Moscow’s refusal highlights the limited progress Donald Trump has made on his promise to end the war

www.theguardian.com

Second, a still photo of a video of him in fatigues in Kursk.

Putin begins biggest Russian military call-up in years

Russia calls up 160,000 men aged 18-30 as it moves to expand the size of its military.

www.bbc.co.uk

(One of the replies asks if he forgot to put in his false teeth).

Are they the same person? Were the photos taken at around the same time, or were they taken at different stages of his life and health?
Was one of them taken after procedures to fill out his jawline?

I'm hoping for some quality replies......

Saw the BBC photo this morning and thought he looked a sick old man, not long for this world. Fingers crossed.

 

[Eric the meek]

I'm pretty sure he's still alive, sadly.

I agree. However, to poorly paraphrase Paul Warburg, he will be alive until he isn't. And when he isn't, we aren't going to know about it for quite a while, at least until the political elite in Moscow have sorted themselves out and decided it is in their interests to publish his death. Which might be weeks, months, years or never.

 

[SouthSaxon]

That's good info. It certainly raises questions about him. Being a crank doesn't necessarily rule anyone out, but being a UKIP candidate? That's a hard core crank.

A relevant article from 2019, by all means judge for yourself.

The Circle Contestant Tim Wilson's 'Spat' With Nigel Farage (And History With UKIP) Explained

Tim alluded to his political background when posed a question about a second EU referendum.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

 

[papachris]

View attachment 199382

Guardian left and BBC right

I thought straight away the other day that it wasn't him in the fatigues. I think it's the same bloke they used before when apparently Putin was driving around the front line.

 

[raymondo]

View attachment 199382

Guardian left and BBC right

Where's that ear lobe comparison when we need it most?

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

Here's what ChatGPT had to say:

Let’s do a comparative analysis based on key facial landmarks visible in the two photos: the left (suited) and the right (military uniform). While I can’t give a definitive identity match, I can assess how likely it is that these two are the same person based on their facial structure and proportions.

1. Forehead and Hairline

Left: The forehead is high with a receding hairline, more defined at the temples.

Right: Similar recession pattern, but the hair appears slightly fuller or darker. Could be lighting or resolution, or possibly hair dye.


Comment: Very similar hairline pattern, but the texture and fullness differ slightly.


---

2. Eyebrows

Left: Arched, prominent, and clearly defined.

Right: Appear flatter and lighter, less defined.


Comment: Eyebrow shapes differ—this is notable, though can be changed with grooming, lighting, or ageing.


---

3. Eyes

Left: Almond-shaped, with a downward tilt on the outer edge.

Right: Slightly more rounded and open; spacing appears a little different.


Comment: The eye shape and lid heaviness are different enough to raise a flag—may suggest different individuals or post-surgery/aging effects.


---

4. Nose

Left: Prominent bridge, narrow and angular tip.

Right: Appears flatter and broader at the tip.


Comment: The nose shape is one of the most distinctive differences—it would be hard to attribute this to just lighting.


---

5. Mouth and Lips

Left: Thin lips, slightly downturned.

Right: Fuller lips, less downturn, more relaxed expression.


Comment: Mouth shape is significantly different—this is a strong point of contrast.


---

6. Chin and Jawline

Left: Angular jaw, slightly clefted chin.

Right: Softer jawline, less prominent chin cleft.


Comment: Differences could be due to angle or weight fluctuation, but still notable.


---

7. Ears

Left: Ears are tight to the head, well-shaped lobes.

Right: Right ear appears to stick out more and has a subtly different shape.


Comment: Ear shape and position are hard to change without surgery. This difference is significant.


---

Conclusion

Based on facial landmarks, there are multiple moderate to strong differences, especially in the eyes, nose, mouth, and ears. These suggest it's plausible they could be different individuals. However, differences could also result from:

Facial expressions

Lighting/angle distortion

Cosmetic surgery or fillers

Age, health, or weight changes

Image resolution or compression artifacts


Would you like a diagram marking these points out visually on the images?

 

[raymondo]

A relevant article from 2019, by all means judge for yourself.

The Circle Contestant Tim Wilson's 'Spat' With Nigel Farage (And History With UKIP) Explained

Tim alluded to his political background when posed a question about a second EU referendum.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

Prof Tim said he wanted to expose ukip from the inside...

 

[Eric the meek]

I thought straight away the other day that it wasn't him in the fatigues. I think it's the same bloke they used before when apparently Putin was driving around the front line.

It makes sense that he would use a double to visit the front line and Kursk. Both the Ukrainians and his own troops have many reasons to kill him.

 

[raymondo]

Here's what ChatGPT had to say:

Let’s do a comparative analysis based on key facial landmarks visible in the two photos: the left (suited) and the right (military uniform). While I can’t give a definitive identity match, I can assess how likely it is that these two are the same person based on their facial structure and proportions.

1. Forehead and Hairline

Left: The forehead is high with a receding hairline, more defined at the temples.

Right: Similar recession pattern, but the hair appears slightly fuller or darker. Could be lighting or resolution, or possibly hair dye.


Comment: Very similar hairline pattern, but the texture and fullness differ slightly.


---

2. Eyebrows

Left: Arched, prominent, and clearly defined.

Right: Appear flatter and lighter, less defined.


Comment: Eyebrow shapes differ—this is notable, though can be changed with grooming, lighting, or ageing.


---

3. Eyes

Left: Almond-shaped, with a downward tilt on the outer edge.

Right: Slightly more rounded and open; spacing appears a little different.


Comment: The eye shape and lid heaviness are different enough to raise a flag—may suggest different individuals or post-surgery/aging effects.


---

4. Nose

Left: Prominent bridge, narrow and angular tip.

Right: Appears flatter and broader at the tip.


Comment: The nose shape is one of the most distinctive differences—it would be hard to attribute this to just lighting.


---

5. Mouth and Lips

Left: Thin lips, slightly downturned.

Right: Fuller lips, less downturn, more relaxed expression.


Comment: Mouth shape is significantly different—this is a strong point of contrast.


---

6. Chin and Jawline

Left: Angular jaw, slightly clefted chin.

Right: Softer jawline, less prominent chin cleft.


Comment: Differences could be due to angle or weight fluctuation, but still notable.


---

7. Ears

Left: Ears are tight to the head, well-shaped lobes.

Right: Right ear appears to stick out more and has a subtly different shape.


Comment: Ear shape and position are hard to change without surgery. This difference is significant.


---

Conclusion

Based on facial landmarks, there are multiple moderate to strong differences, especially in the eyes, nose, mouth, and ears. These suggest it's plausible they could be different individuals. However, differences could also result from:

Facial expressions

Lighting/angle distortion

Cosmetic surgery or fillers

Age, health, or weight changes

Image resolution or compression artifacts


Would you like a diagram marking these points out visually on the images?

I'm convinced ...did you get the diagram?;

 

[raymondo]

It makes sense that he would use a double to visit the front line and Kursk. Both the Ukrainians and his own troops have many reasons to kill him.

He wouldn't be seen dead (sadly) anywhere near the front line.