[Football] Scotland vs England

[Nitram]

Well I was hoping after the Croatian game that we might actually perform at an international completion. But no it’s back to earth with a bang. We have so many talented players that either play for, or are are coverted by, the top teams in the world. Again we arrive at a completion not knowing who to play, or what the best formation is for the players. England is at least consistent in this respect whoever the manager is.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I agree with you on the first match, but we were WOEFUL last night.

I prefer the term 'bang average'. The pessimist/realist in me thinks we will produce similar displays later in the tournament and exit the tournament with a whimper while the optimist believes we will improve and raise our game when it really matters. The optimism is mainly drink related though!

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

 

[BN9 BHA]

Mrs.W thought Sterling was amazing on 80 minutes when he spent epochs in some pointless ball retention showing-off shit, when faced by 8 Scots, on his own and ignoring all his team mates.

https://twitter.com/ranjetreece/status/1406123685472129028?s=21

 

[Sorrel]

We do seem to be following the normal tournament plan, just with the matches reversed. Normally we start with an uninspiring draw against mediocre opponents.

 

[peterward]

I've related this back to us before and I still can't work it out. On the one hand Ashworth was partly responsible for hiring Southgate, on the other the only time we looked innovative and played with freedom was while DA was still there. I'm probably conflating correlation and causation there but something has happened as Southgate has gone on that has made him very, very conservative with both his picks and formations. Smug Eddie would, indeed, be better. There, I said it.

But if you're going to play with two holding midfielders, ask Kane to drop deep and never play Foden and Grealish on the same pitch then at least have the decency to HAVE a midfield. How many times did you see McGinn in twenty yards of space? How many times in the first half did Scotland win the first and second balls from goal kicks? I mentioned Rice in my other post because everything he did was backwards (how many times did we ignore a switch that was on and go backwards or up the line - it felt like all night?) but how poor was Phillips?

All excellent observations. I know Rice is a good player, seen it for WHU but last night he reminded me of a below par Dale Stephens, doing nothing except plod around lethargically and only go backwards.

I came across a red cafe (man u forum) thread via twitter last night delving into the shambles and almost to a man they confer over 8 pages what you suggest, Southgate was never qualified to get the job, is hopelessly out if his depth and is rubbish.

An interesting read.... By bottom of page 2 you'll get the concensus!

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/are-english-players-overrated-or-is-it-southgate.463524/

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

England are 11/5 in some places to get knocked out in the round of 16, seems good value.

Southgate is an idiot, do France play Kante and Sissoko deep cutting an attacking option?

No, they play to blow teams away with their strength.

 

[Randy McNob]

You do see that there’s a slight difference in ability between the English and Welsh squads?

Perhaps, but I'm referring to the different reactions to the same points tally. Somehow Wales beating easily the worst team in the tournament is herculean, they got to the last 4 last time didn't they? And they have a world class player, hardly minnows. England beat a world Cup finalist.

The performance wasn't great but we got the job done, as long as we step up when it matters that's what we will be judged on

 

[Guinness Boy]

All excellent observations. I know Rice is a good player, seen it for WHU but last night he reminded me of a below par Dale Stephens, doing nothing except plod around lethargically and only go backwards.

I came across a red cafe (man u forum) thread via twitter last night delving into the shambles and almost to a man they confer over 8 pages what you suggest, Southgate was never qualified to get the job, is hopelessly out if his depth and is rubbish.

An interesting read.... By bottom of page 2 you'll get the concensus!

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/are-english-players-overrated-or-is-it-southgate.463524/

Interesting stuff

They're not saying much different to folk on here. I watched with a Spurs fan and a Villa fan last night who also said similar (and the Villa fan said Konsa is FAR better than Mings, confirming for me he's only selected because of his left foot)

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

Thoroughly enjoyed the game, great to see so many Scottish fans down, having a laugh and supporting the team, especially after the year and a half we’ve all been through….

Bravo Scotland

 

[peterward]

I liked the 4-3-3 system in the Spain 2-3 England result although keeping Dunk sat on the bench wasn’t great.

For Czech, I’d go:

———————-Pickford————————
James——Stones——-Mings——-Shaw
—-Mount———Phillips——-Grealish—-
—Sancho———Rashford——Foden—-

You might but Southgate doesn't have the balls to leave out his pet favourites despite lack of form

Expect Sterling and Kane to start.

I'd prefer 3 at the back and get Ben on the right of it.

 

[One Love]

Reminded me of us playing a bottom 3 team.

I hope we're as good as us playing a top 6 team.

 

[Perfidious Albion]

If The Albion played like that..........then we would have something to moan about

 

[Randy McNob]

Interesting stuff

They're not saying much different to folk on here. I watched with a Spurs fan and a Villa fan last night who also said similar (and the Villa fan said Konsa is FAR better than Mings, confirming for me he's only selected because of his left foot)

they must have short memories, clearly forgotten the clueless performances under Sven and Crapello

out of your depth would mean something like....picking a 16 year old who never played a game in the prem - and not playing him, taking an injured Owen to a WC - who then gets injured after 10 mins, 4-1 down to Germany and bring on Emile Heskey, bring on Jamie Carragher specifically to take a penalty who duely skies it into row Z.

Be careful what you wish for

 

[golddene]

Shít game and a turgid performance at the hands of a determined Scotland team who came to do a job on us and duly did it. Credit to them - I thought they were excellent under the circumstances.

That said, is it the worst result in the world? We’ve now more or less qualified and have a slightly lower chance of finishing in that dreaded top position. I wouldn’t take too much from this result in terms of our ability to beat a top side - tonight was a totally different game and whether we failed the test or not I don’t think it’s massively relevant.

Unpopular opinion perhaps, but I think our chances of reaching the latter stages just improves tonight.

Yes this. Take a draw in our final qualifier and get a last 16 game against possibly Sweden if Spain go on to win their group, probable easier route to the quarters than any other finishing position.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

All excellent observations. I know Rice is a good player, seen it for WHU but last night he reminded me of a below par Dale Stephens, doing nothing except plod around lethargically and only go backwards.

I came across a red cafe (man u forum) thread via twitter last night delving into the shambles and almost to a man they confer over 8 pages what you suggest, Southgate was never qualified to get the job, is hopelessly out if his depth and is rubbish.

An interesting read.... By bottom of page 2 you'll get the concensus!

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/are-english-players-overrated-or-is-it-southgate.463524/

Southgate has more coaching credentials and experience than Beckenbauer did!

 

[Guinness Boy]

they must have short memories, clearly forgotten the clueless performances under Sven and Crapello

out of your depth would mean something like....picking a 16 year old who never played a game in the prem - and not playing him, taking an injured Owen to a WC - who then gets injured after 10 mins, 4-1 down to Germany and bring on Emile Heskey, bring on Jamie Carragher specifically to take a penalty who duely skies it into row Z.

Be careful what you wish for

Or maybe pick a young Bellingham and not play him, put injured Maguire and Henderson into the squad or finally bring on Grealish but take off Foden when Phillips is having a mare. That sort of thing?

 

[Icy Gull]

Southgate has more coaching credentials and experience than Beckenbauer did!

Scary, loads of coaching credentials but a tactical disaster unless plan A is working

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Scary, loads of coaching credentials but a tactical disaster unless plan A is working

Well exactly my point really, it’s not his credentials or experience that is an issue so it’s pointless using that as a criticism of Southgate when Beckenbauer was pretty much a manager for just 2 years got to a World Cup final, then 4 years later won a World Cup. I doubt he even needed badges back in 84-90.

Similarly Klinsmann didn’t have any coaching experience either.

 

[peterward]

Well exactly my point really, it’s not his credentials or experience that is an issue so it’s pointless using that as a criticism of Southgate when Beckenbauer was pretty much a manager for just 2 years got to a World Cup final, then 4 years later won a World Cup. I doubt he even needed badges back in 84-90.

Similarly Klinsmann didn’t have any coaching experience either.

But in this day and age to get the job as the coach of the 4th ranked team in world football and with a hugely talented bunch of young English players, all playing in top leagues and for decent clubs, you would NEVER get the job with an unspectacular playing career or failed at Middlesbrough, and hit/miss for U21 as your crowing achievements.

He was seen as a compliant Yes man, who happened to already be in the England set up (just like many other failed managers like Aidy Boothroyd or Chris Powell seem to do).

Was Gareth Southgate the best man or most capably qualified coach to lead a top 10 ranked team in world football? of course not, its laughable.

Look at Mancini at Italy, a real quality top level manager, who knows what he's doing and has arguably a less talented squad, purring as a brilliant and organised team.

Southgate is a nice man, speaks well, is articulate, I dare say he's good at man management (as a calm nice guy), but he's done nothing to suggest he has the first clue tactically, nor any history of success in management.

ofc people will try and use the last WC, where we beat panama and Tunisa (just), lost to the only decent team in the group Belgium convincingly, then beat Colombia on pens, big underdogs and lower ranked Sweden (with set piece goals) before getting beat by the next decent team we face Croatia, then again getting beat by the other decent team we beat (Belgium 2nd time) in the 3/4th play off.

Winning the euros group against more minnows is all just papering over the cracks. Southgate doesnt have the beating of any of the top sides, we're wasting our time and this group of player talents in the hands of the FA yes man, who shouldn't have been appointed and did nothing to merit it.

If beating Panama, Tunisia, Montenegro or Kosovo is the limit of our ambition then fine, If we want to compete against the top teams we need a proven coach with tactical nous and that is not Gareth Southgate.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

First up, fair play to Scotland. If I was Scottish I'd be very proud of that team and performance. They played with pace, energy, commitment and to a structure and plan.

All I've ever wanted from my teams is that they try their best and have a go. It's not a lot to ask. It's what Scotland did. I'm dubious we did the former and we certainly didn't do the latter.

It's so frustrating watching a group of young, talented players with an obvious strength and weakness being wasted as we forsake our strength in a doomed attempt to shore up our weakness.

Be brave Gareth, have a ****ing go at teams.