Syria vote Labour demands evidence

[somerset]

Think we are doing nothing, because nobody has come with any credible evidence as to who used this ordinance, but people here seem to have some inside knowledge on it...you should let the Americans know if you have some info.

Sadly I think we are doing nothing now simply because it is 'right-on' to be anti-coalition ( this includes the government rebels),.... its party politics playing with peoples lives. Its no more complicated than that for a good tranche of those who voted last night.

 

[Superphil]

I don't take credit for this, it was written by Attila, but it pretty much sums up how I feel about this:

"MPs do something good for once shock. Maybe the lessons of Sirte and Falluja (where the US used phosphorous bombs - how the hell is using sarin 'crossing a red line' and using phosphorous or napalm not?) finally got through. It is a ghastly, awful civil war, where Muslims are killing Muslims and Al Qaeda are fighting Hezbollah for pity's sake. How the HELL (literally) will Western intervention help THAT? Now let's end the poxy 'special relationship once and for all and stop being Airstrip One."

 

[daveinprague]

Sadly I think we are doing nothing now simply because it is 'right-on' to be anti-coalition ( this includes the government rebels),.... its party politics playing with peoples lives. Its no more complicated than that for a good tranche of those who voted last night.

Think its more about not knowing who actually used this ordinance rather than being anti coalition surely? If we are going to commit to bombing people, because they have bombed people, I would want to be absolutely certain about the facts...
I still dont get how we are now allies of Al Qaeda, and its affiliates in the area....

 

[daveinprague]

I don't take credit for this, it was written by Attila, but it pretty much sums up how I feel about this:

"MPs do something good for once shock. Maybe the lessons of Sirte and Falluja (where the US used phosphorous bombs - how the hell is using sarin 'crossing a red line' and using phosphorous or napalm not?) finally got through. It is a ghastly, awful civil war, where Muslims are killing Muslims and Al Qaeda are fighting Hezbollah for pity's sake. How the HELL (literally) will Western intervention help THAT? Now let's end the poxy 'special relationship once and for all and stop being Airstrip One."

I heard a security analyst, on CCN this morning, talking about the groups fighting the Assad government forces, as including Hezbollah

 

[somerset]

Think its more about not knowing who actually used this ordinance rather than being anti coalition surely?

I have always thought you had a better handle on these topics than this reply suggests DIP. That was a massive straw clutching exercise by the NO's last night, the lack of a bit of paper signed by Assad himself giving the order to FIRE!!, has been used as a convenient way to bloody the coalition nose ( for a lot of the MP's voting at least, I do think there are plenty who genuinely voted with conscience)

 

[daveinprague]

You believe that Al Qaeda, and its affilitates are not capable of doing this? You would have to be 100% sure.
Of course there has been some political manoevering, but come on...the last time we took Americans word on this sort of
issue, we got it wrong..
Why we are supporting a side that has repeatedly been reported as wiping out villages, beheading people, even eating the fecking
heart of an Assad soldier...
On the BBC news the other morning...Item 1: US says Assad used the weapons... Item 2: Hague says Assad used the weapons...Item 3: UN
inspectors will try again to get to the scene, and investigate.

 

[The Large One]

Sadly I think we are doing nothing now simply because it is 'right-on' to be anti-coalition ( this includes the government rebels),.... its party politics playing with peoples lives. Its no more complicated than that for a good tranche of those who voted last night.

You can convince yourself of that if you want - not that 'right-on' as a phrase has any meaning, apart from maybe in a debating forum started by Year 9 pupils.

 

[Simster]

Sadly I think we are doing nothing now simply because it is 'right-on' to be anti-coalition ( this includes the government rebels),.... its party politics playing with peoples lives. Its no more complicated than that for a good tranche of those who voted last night.

Absolute rubbish. If you want to be cynical then you could point to past failures in Iraq as reason for various politicians being wary this time round.

Or ask the question - where are the votes for having our troops returning in bodybags from a botched illegal war in Iraq or an unwinnable war in Afghanistan?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

You do have to wonder if the vote was correct though - watch this video and I challenge anyone not to feel for the people of Syria and the fact the world has turned its back on them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-23892594

 

[somerset]

You can convince yourself of that if you want - not that 'right-on' as a phrase has any meaning, apart from maybe in a debating forum started by Year 9 pupils.

Ooooo how cutting,.... do one will you ( is that year 9 enough for you?)

 

[somerset]

Absolute rubbish. If you want to be cynical then you could point to past failures in Iraq as reason for various politicians being wary this time round.

Or ask the question - where are the votes for having our troops returning in bodybags from a botched illegal war in Iraq or an unwinnable war in Afghanistan?

Perhaps we shouldn't have believed the hype in September '39,... you may have been happier now living in either a communist or fascist system.... I am sure your grandparents would agree with you.

 

[daveinprague]

At the moment, the 'hype' is America and England saying that this is the doing of the Assad government, when in fact, nobody really knows for suire. If they were sure, and had some sort of evidence, they would have acted by now.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The point is a half arsed missile attack against the Syrian government would not be helping the Syrian people, it would be going against them - and would most likely make these scenes an even more common sight.

Condemning chemical weapons is a no brainer, but reacting with violence against a government who is desperately fighting terrorists that possess them would be beyond idiotic.

I kind of agree but how would you suggest bringing that government into line with international law - a stern letter ?

 

[GreersElbow]

It's obvious that the Islamist terrorists were responsible for the gassing.

So either help Assad return it to peace, or leave it well alone.

I'm not overly convinced it was Assad, I can't see it being a logical attack given the threats from Western nations. But at the same time, I cannot see it being the rebels at the same time. Watching Lebanon at the moment, is there a possibility it could have been Hezbollah to try and stir something more sinister up? Hezbollah are dirty *******s who if I'm correct in saying are supported by Iran.

Assad would be demolished by Western intervention without any support from Russia, if the oil deal between the Saudis and the Russians goes through. Assad is alone, which would be worrying for Iran as it'd be another nation which would in theory, have the backing of the U.S and be on the Western side. This would be a threat to Iran who have a nuclear power program that the West is so desperately trying to make it appear as though they're making nuclear weapons to destroy Israel. Which anyone with common sense knows is bullshit. Iran producing nuclear power would increase their profits from oil sales which would improve their economic situation incredibly. Economic stability leads to prosperity which in turn leads to a more cooperative state.

I normally disagree with Mustafa, and very vocal about that opposition. However, what do you think of my "theory".

 

[The Large One]

Ooooo how cutting,.... do one will you ( is that year 9 enough for you?)

Not everyone is the unthinking world-in-black-and-white warmonger you are.

 

[The Large One]

I kind of agree but how would you suggest bringing that government into line with international law - a stern letter ?

Let's reverse that...

"How would you suggest bringing that government into line with international law - a cruise missile attack with only negative consequences?

 

[pork pie]

Perhaps we shouldn't have believed the hype in September '39,... you may have been happier now living in either a communist or fascist system.... I am sure your grandparents would agree with you.

One BIG difference. You are referring to potential war in Europe, at a time when we were the biggest empire on this planet. We are no longer a world power, and anything that happens in Syria is unlikely to impact on us beyond a few dollars a barel on oil prices. I would not want any son of mine's life put in danger to get involved in this conflict. It is not our problem.

The US are only interested as they see it as a chance to increase the military dominance of Isreal in the region.

 

[pork pie]

You do have to wonder if the vote was correct though - watch this video and I challenge anyone not to feel for the people of Syria and the fact the world has turned its back on them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-23892594

If you are that bothered, grab your passport and go and join the rebels.

 

[somerset]

One BIG difference. You are referring to potential war in Europe, at a time when we were the biggest empire on this planet. We are no longer a world power, and anything that happens in Syria is unlikely to impact on us beyond a few dollars a barel on oil prices. I would not want any son of mine's life put in danger to get involved in this conflict. It is not our problem.

The US are only interested as they see it as a chance to increase the military dominance of Isreal in the region.

The implications of action of any sort are likely to be many and varied, that should not prevent it happening, no pain no gain.

 

[Sweeney Todd]

I’m wondering how many of the people in Syria begging the West to intervene in their country cursed the West when it intervened in Iraq.