The Daily Mail

[cunning fergus]

Well, you certainly haven't been able to find any with the links you've posted so far!

Tax avoidance is not illegal, so fair play to the sharp capitalist brains behind the Guardian to recognise ways of offsetting their UK tax liabilities whether from sell off offs or movements of intra group capital and assets. All corporate institutions do the same, that is their corporate responsibility to their shareholders.

Not many corporate groups however employ these startegies whilst also placing themselves as the withchfinder general of tax avoidance with other corporates.

Et tu Brute?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Tax avoidance is not illegal, so fair play to the sharp capitalist brains behind the Guardian to recognise ways of offsetting their UK tax liabilities whether from sell off offs or movements of intra group capital and assets. All corporate institutions do the same, that is their corporate responsibility to their shareholders.

Not many corporate groups however employ these startegies whilst also placing themselves as the withchfinder general of tax avoidance with other corporates.

Et tu Brute?

But the first article you posted actually concluded that they didn't avoid any tax, legally or otherwise...You're making some pretty big statements and accusations that you've not been able to back up in anyway. I'm not going to pretend I know, but so far I'm pretty sure you don't either.

 

[pastafarian]

Firstly fair play to you for having the courage of your convictions. Without debate we get nowhere.

BUT a Mail reader imploring someone to "get out more." It seems to me that one of the papers primary functions is to scare people about doing exactly that. Europe - bad, Blacks - bad, Muslims - bad, Jews - bad, Gays -bad, crime through the roof, paedophiles on every street corner etc...
The mail representation of what Britian is, is completely at odds with 99% of the populous's experience

i guess the trick is how one interprets what you are reading,processing information beyond catchy headlines and gaining evidence from many sources before forming an opinion,i for one certainly dont come away with believing all the above are "bad" from reading the Mail,if anybody does ......more fool them

 

[Bold Seagull]

i guess the trick is how one interprets what you are reading,processing information beyond catchy headlines and gaining evidence from many sources before forming an opinion,i for one certainly dont come away with believing all the above are "bad" from reading the Mail,if anybody does ......more fool them

If only the Daily Mail could take your own advice about gaining evidence from many sources, or even the occasional credible source would be a start!!

 

[spring hall convert]

i guess the trick is how one interprets what you are reading,processing information beyond catchy headlines and gaining evidence from many sources before forming an opinion,i for one certainly dont come away with believing all the above are "bad" from reading the Mail,if anybody does ......more fool them

At the risk of encouraging an essay, what is the Mail's editiorial stance on?

The European Union
Islam
Immigration
Gay Rights
Crime & Punishment

The headlines are the tip of the iceburg with the Mail. It's when you get to the comment you realise the dark, sinister heart that beats at its core.

Total change of subject as well but does anyone notice the DM regularly getting news and comment mixed up?

 

[pastafarian]

If only the Daily Mail could take your own advice about gaining evidence from many sources, or even the occasional credible source would be a start!!

Virtually all the newspapers do it,doesnt make it right i know.

The old phrase dont believe everything you read should always be in play.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Virtually all the newspapers do it,doesnt make it right i know.

The old phrase dont believe everything you read should always be in play.

No they don't, while all journalists are subject to getting things wrong, I think our broadsheet press such as the Telegraph, Independent and Guardian are pretty thorough in their examination of a story. The Mail, is frankly an embarrassing excuse for a newspaper. It plays on mainstream fears of an ignorant public. It's readership are not a rigorous intellectual cross section of society who objectively assess each story presented on it's merits, surely if you were minded this way, why on earth would you buy it in the first place!?

 

[cunning fergus]

But the first article you posted actually concluded that they didn't avoid any tax, legally or otherwise...You're making some pretty big statements and accusations that you've not been able to back up in anyway. I'm not going to pretend I know, but so far I'm pretty sure you don't either.

Page 28. Profit before Taxation in 2007 £289m and taxation 6.5m. In 2008 Profit before Taxation £306m and tax...............drum roll..........£800,000.

All legit I suspect..............so go figure..............you're right I am not a tax expert, so maybe it has nothing at all to do with the Caymans or Luxembourg.

I am not moaning, tax avoidance is not illegal, vive la capitalism as Polly Toynbee's accountants' would say when they get her salary.

http://www.gmgplc.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/GMG_annual report_2008.pdf

 

[pastafarian]

At the risk of encouraging an essay, what is the Mail's editiorial stance on?

The European Union
Islam
Immigration
Gay Rights
Crime & Punishment

The headlines are the tip of the iceburg with the Mail. It's when you get to the comment you realise the dark, sinister heart that beats at its core.

Total change of subject as well but does anyone notice the DM regularly getting news and comment mixed up?

Your right there is a large risk of an essay,so i shall pass.
I could give you my opinions on the above though,they would probably be a bit dull however and probably not what you think they should be if preconceptions about what i read and therefore what i am thinking come into play

 

[spring hall convert]

I could give you my opinions on the above though,they would probably be a bit dull however and probably not what you think they should be if preconceptions about what i read and therefore what i am thinking come into play

Not at all, I'm glad to hear it.

My response that you quoted was a reply to someone saying people "should get out more." The point I was trying to make was that the DM's raison d'etre seems to be to make people afraid of doing exactly that regardless of your or anyone else's interpretation of their editorial stance.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Page 28. Profit before Taxation in 2007 £289m and taxation 6.5m. In 2008 Profit before Taxation £306m and tax...............drum roll..........£800,000.

All legit I suspect..............so go figure..............you're right I am not a tax expert, so maybe it has nothing at all to do with the Caymans or Luxembourg.

I am not moaning, tax avoidance is not illegal, vive la capitalism as Polly Toynbee's accountants' would say when they get her salary.

http://www.gmgplc.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/GMG_annual report_2008.pdf

It's a lot more complicated than that as explained on page 56......but as with all your other links, I'm sure you didn't get that far....and I don't pretend to understand it, but that certainly doesn't lead me to the conclusions you seem to be making...

 

[cunning fergus]

It's a lot more complicated than that as explained on page 56......but as with all your other links, I'm sure you didn't get that far....and I don't pretend to understand it, but that certainly doesn't lead me to the conclusions you seem to be making...

Of course its complicated, corporate entities will create complex multi jurisdictional corporate structures to deliberately obfuscate their assets/profits from the tax authorities. As we know from the Googles and Starbucks of this world there are many completely legal ways this can be achieved.

In these more hysterical times where corporates are under ever more scrutiny from the authorities and the media to justify their structures, those that chose to extend their corporate hierarchies into tax havens such as the Caymens and Luxembourg should naturally expect suspicions to be raised about the nature of their motives.

I certainly don't think the GMG have done anything illegal in only paying £800k in a year that they generated over £300m in profit, however I do consider that, in the context of what we do know about their complex structure with companies in tax havens and only paying 0.03% tax on their profit in 2008 that they do open themselves to valid criticisms of hypocrisy.

I understand you do not see it the same way and good luck to you, you are evidently a far more open minded and relaxed soul about this kind of stuff than me.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

http://toys.usvsth3m.com/are-you-hated-by-the-daily-mail/

good game...good game but why are they the results restricted...what about tolerated,liked loved being there as well.

 

[cunning fergus]

Shall we agree that the statement is open to interpretation?

I wouldn't view myself in any way as a nationalist, I find all the talk of empires and general xenophobia distasteful. Am I proud of the country I was born in? Damn right I am.

To be honest I don't think the statement was that important in the first place, albeit it is an interesting from an anecdotal perspective.

More interesting though are the views of Miliband via his published work, and his undoubted access (and influence) within political circles over the post war period. He was, from his writings and opinions of his peers, an unrepentant Marxist with a far more radical in his appetite for social change than the Labour Party were ever prepared to stomach in their policy approach (over that period).......all of which is fair enough.

However, despite that view being a matter of general public record, I remain incredulous at how he was able to maintain any sense of Marxist credibility having become handsomely wealthy, owning a couple of properties and undoubtedly having some influence in packing of both his sons to Oxford (not least David who got mediocre A-levels).

So the fact is Ralph Miliband was ultimately a hypocrite.........just like his son who is another paper socialist like the other millionaire socialists with influential parents that fill the ranks of Labour. That is not speaking ill of the dead, that is merely recognising the facts..........if he was remembered as an immigrant who did well financially and set up his kids, I would think............fair enough.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

No they don't, while all journalists are subject to getting things wrong, I think our broadsheet press such as the Telegraph, Independent and Guardian are pretty thorough in their examination of a story. The Mail, is frankly an embarrassing excuse for a newspaper. It plays on mainstream fears of an ignorant public. It's readership are not a rigorous intellectual cross section of society who objectively assess each story presented on it's merits, surely if you were minded this way, why on earth would you buy it in the first place!?

Why would you buy it?...it is the second biggest selling daily paper...the Sun being first, so your quote you plucked out of the air about it's readership are not a rigorous intellect cross section (YOU KNOW THIS...HOW?) really doesn't stand up does it.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Why would you buy it?...it is the second biggest selling daily paper...the Sun being first, so your quote you plucked out of the air about it's readership are not a rigorous intellect cross section (YOU KNOW THIS...HOW?) really doesn't stand up does it.

What quote? My post is clearly an opinion.

 

[Soulman]

Does the Guardian get as much stick for it's opinions and bias.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guardian#Political_stance_and_editorial_opinion

 

[Nibble]

Ed Milliband starting a fresh round of criticism of the Mail this morning. Yeah okay Ed, we get it. If you are going to get this upset over something some hack writes in The Mail you are going to get torn to shreds over the next year. Man the **** up you chinless child, you've got a Tory government to rid us of. Some chance.

As much as I loathe The Mail it was a genius move them sending someone to that memorial service. What better way to be able to be seen to apologise for something but still defend the original article. Slimy, abhorant but quite smart.

 

[spring hall convert]

To be honest I don't think the statement was that important in the first place, albeit it is an interesting from an anecdotal perspective.

More interesting though are the views of Miliband via his published work, and his undoubted access (and influence) within political circles over the post war period. He was, from his writings and opinions of his peers, an unrepentant Marxist with a far more radical in his appetite for social change than the Labour Party were ever prepared to stomach in their policy approach (over that period).......all of which is fair enough.

However, despite that view being a matter of general public record, I remain incredulous at how he was able to maintain any sense of Marxist credibility having become handsomely wealthy, owning a couple of properties and undoubtedly having some influence in packing of both his sons to Oxford (not least David who got mediocre A-levels).

So the fact is Ralph Miliband was ultimately a hypocrite.........just like his son who is another paper socialist like the other millionaire socialists with influential parents that fill the ranks of Labour. That is not speaking ill of the dead, that is merely recognising the facts..........if he was remembered as an immigrant who did well financially and set up his kids, I would think............fair enough.

I totally understand this perspective. Not sure I completely agree but absolutely understand where you are coming from.

 

[spring hall convert]

Why would you buy it?...it is the second biggest selling daily paper...the Sun being first, so your quote you plucked out of the air about it's readership are not a rigorous intellect cross section (YOU KNOW THIS...HOW?) really doesn't stand up does it.

Because sales always equate to quality don't they. By this rationale McDonalds is the best restaurant in the world.