[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Is it PotG?]

Starmer is not the messiah, but he would have to be a very, very, very naughty boy to give us a worse ride than the current Tory Party would.

As in football, I'm a results person.

Economic growth and a curb on the boats, they are the scores on the teleprinter I'll be watching for.

 

[clapham_gull]

Should 100% stuck with Boris...

Like he was going to hang around with the outgoings he has on a chicken feed PM's wages. He'd be gone by now anyway, naturally a populist liberal the right of the party would have turned on him.

I suggest you read a few books about him or research his time as London Mayor where he splaffed a billion pounds of tax payers money down the drain.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Starmer is not the messiah, but he would have to be a very, very, very naughty boy to give us a worse ride than the current Tory Party would.

Do you think he'll really bypass local councils and build, build, build on greenbelt?

 

[Baldseagull]

And willing to keep in place for the next five years.

You are making the same mistake that got us in all kinds of shit we have been in and are currently in, by believing things Boris Johnson said. Lockdowns could have been shorter if they had come in a bit sooner.

 

[Is it PotG?]

You are making the same mistake that got us in all kinds of shit we have been in and are currently in, by believing things Boris Johnson said. Lockdowns could have been shorter if they had come in a bit sooner.

Not quite my point but fair enough.

 

[Baldseagull]

Do you think he'll really bypass local councils and build, build, build on greenbelt?

Do You think that would be a terrible thing? If so, is it the bypassing of local councils, which is not quite what Labour have said, or is it using some Greenbelt?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

That will be because they are scientists and will have different views on the information in front of them. 'Experts' and their expertise are essential to complex decisions, but that's as far as it goes, because it's complicated, hence very clever people spend their lives trying to understand it.

So, are we 'fed up with experts' or 'being led by science'. Shirley it can't be both, but that's why you need decision makers

In the field I worked in, I worked with some absolutely superb 'experts' who wouldn't agree on the most basic of things, but were superb at what they did. Which was why I listened very closely to what they said, and then made my decisions

Not sure why Potty is laughing at your post. Your take on expert advice is correct. I have acted as an expert advisor/consultant to pharma on several occasions and the decisions are theirs to make not mine to dictate.

That's why the buck stops with useless Johnson. He opted to side with the view that the world would not end if action were delayed a week or so, rather than the view that lots more lives were likely to be saved by swift action.

 

[Baldseagull]

As in football, I'm a results person.

Economic growth and a curb on the boats, they are the scores on the teleprinter I'll be watching for.

We can stop the boats tomorrow, but do you really mean stopping so many people seeking asylum in the UK?

 

[Is it PotG?]

We can stop the boats tomorrow, but do you really mean stopping so many people seeking asylum in the UK?

No.
I mean stopping boats.
Are you trying to change my words?

 

[Is it PotG?]

Do You think that would be a terrible thing? If so, is it the bypassing of local councils, which is not quite what Labour have said, or is it using some Greenbelt?

I look forward to the next few years, I have the popcorn ready.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

When Johnson was dithering over the first lockdown, Labour were in the middle of a leadership contest. Once Kier Starmer was installed, Labour acted like a wartime opposition, and were supportive of Covid related measures as far as they felt possible, despite that, Labour were calling for the second lock down weeks earlier than it was introduced.

He knows that, but thinks throwing in a simplistic question in now and again, is ‘fun’.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

You seem incapable of seeing what has been said other than what we already knew about Johnson etc, even when it has happened in the last 3 days

Whitty/Van Tam/Vallance have all given different answers to what they were saying should happen at the start and in some cases contradicts what they actually said during the time.

No one is claiming Johnson etc were not clowns, but there was difference of opinion at the time and not one clear voice.

The whole point of an enquiry is to hear all evidence, not just the bits you want to hear.
i hope you’re never called on jury duty.

 

[Machiavelli]

What is essential about gossip?

The last three days only highlighted how nobody really knew what to do.

Other countries have already wrapped it all up

From the little I've followed it, the last three days have indicated that these were very fine judgments that the scientific community had to make, in a rapidly evolving situation, in which key figures (eg CSA, CMO) had different areas of expertise and specialisms, which prompted to emphasise certain thing over others, or be somewhat unaligned in what needed to happen when.
Sounds like a decent, critical process to me. Then again, there's always certainty.

 

[Is it PotG?]

The whole point of an enquiry is to hear all evidence, not just the bits you want to hear.
i hope you’re never called on jury duty.

You DO understand the difference between a court of law and an enquiry?

We can help.

 

[Baldseagull]

No.
I mean stopping boats.
Are you trying to change my words?

Not trying to change your words, just looking for clarification, my last few responses to you have been mostly questions, because your posts are short and not really clear what you are driving at. Even now, I have to ask, is stopping boats at a cost to your human rights acceptable?

 

[Machiavelli]

As in football, I'm a results person.

Economic growth and a curb on the boats, they are the scores on the teleprinter I'll be watching for.

If it's those two you're after, you haven't been paying attention. Utterly dreadful performance and results on both counts.

 

[abc]

The whole point of an enquiry is to hear all evidence, not just the bits you want to hear.

Shouldn’t the point of the enquiry be how we learn lessons so next time we will be prepared and know how to manage a pandemic better? All we are getting is he said this/he said that. May help fill pages on nsc and confirm our views and prejudices but not going to save lives in the future

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Shouldn’t the point of the enquiry be how we learn lessons so next time we will be prepared and know how to manage a pandemic better? All we are getting is he said this/he said that. May help fill pages on nsc and confirm our views and prejudices but not going to save lives in the future

We haven’t got to the end of the enquiry yet to draw conclusions.
That doesn’t stop people drawing their own conclusions as shown on this thread.
Preparing for epidemics and pandemics does have planning but it appears Operation Cygnus was totally ignored. Perhaps legislation, with legal consequences is needed in future?

 

[Lever]

By confusion in the Government I am assuming you mean in Sage as well, as we have had three of the main players interviewed over the last few days who have answered the same questions differently in regards to what they thought should have happened and when.

We also had Whitty confirm he saw no reason to cancel Cheltenham etc.

Children's education and impact - how will it be made up
The State of the NHS and what needs fixing (its not just money) and how it will be done
Current death rate and should we have shut the NHS for everything other than Covid
The general health of Britain's
PPE Fraud
Debt levels and how will it be paid back and honesty on how it was spent/how much
What are we putting in place for future pandemics
Why out of date modelling was used (was confirmed) and why was worst case seen as the go to at the time (now admitted as an error)
Why did people get shipped off to care homes, what was the thinking and why did the experts not understand how care homes work in regards to staff, why was testing not in place.

As a start.

All of the above are important issues for scrutiny and debate; hopefully they will be. In terms of 'confusion'

I mean communication and decision making at the level of government and its advisors.

'we have had three of the main players interviewed over the last few days who have answered the same questions differently in regards to what they thought should have happened and when'. Does this not indicate a high level of confusion at the highest level? Can we not expect better communication outcomes from the country's decision makers?

 

[Lever]

Should 100% stuck with Boris...

Have you just made @WATFORD zero's point for him?

Reminder: 'Of course everyone who had read anything about Johnson knew. We all know what the issue is, but I'm not sure how you address the fact that 50% of the electorate are more stupid than the average person but still have a vote'