[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Lever]

 

[Lever]

It is sometimes hard to have even landed punches recognised when one is constantly swimming against the tide of political opinion on this forum. Even if one makes a decent point against the prevailing view, it will not be greeted by the usual posters with lovie likes unless they agree with your political viewpoint. This is generally true of both left and right, but as a left view is predominant on here, it is more noticeable.
No, I haven’t landed any effective punches on this particular sub topic, but you can’t win ‘em all. Anyway, It is always a tough gig for a centre righty on NSC, I would never expect an easy ride.

I respect 'centre righty' posters, but didn't the current cabal actually get rid of them over Brexit and leave us with 'extreme righties?' .... you know, the ones who have ruined the cohesion of our country and severely damaged our economy and reputation?

Do you 'respect' them?

 

[Audax]

those who cannot afford compliant vehicles

That would actually (given the types of vehicles that are compliant) be more accurately stated as "those who cannot afford vehicles that are roadworthy" and thus are actually unaffected by the ULEZ extension (or should be). The compliant list includes plenty of affordable second hand vehicles.

I know and I have edited my remark. Of course everyone wants clean air, but I am merely asking was this a fair decision? A number of councils thought not and objected. I am not saying it is right or wrong, but I just wanted to put it out there as an example of a controversial act by the London Mayor.

My view is that various Tory groups used ULEZ as a political point-scoring gambit. They did a very clever job misrepresenting the impact ULEZ would have (including convincing Tesla owners that it was bad for them!), and the councils objecting was a part of that process.

I thought extending the ULEZ was a condition made by the Government for bailing out TFL?

Yes and no. The Government never actually explicitly specified that ULEZ be extended. But they did heavily imply that ULEZ-like policies were a requirement. And the obvious option for Khan within the non-specific framework he was handed was to extend ULEZ. Tory Government quite neatly laid a trap that they could then exploit later on with plausible deniability of being responsible.

It is always a tough gig for a centre righty on NSC

I'm naturally centre-right economics, centre-left social. I'd argue your problem as a centre-right currently is that the Tory's do not currently represent the centre-right. They've lurched further and further to the right since coming into power. Far enough that I'd argue that what would be considered "centre-right" has also been pulled to the right, such that those (like me) who would have been defined as "central" 10 years ago are now seen as being "lefties".

 

[clapham_gull]

No surprise to me. but maybe be to some who voted Brexit to protect British industries.

Let farming, manufacturing (and whatever else die) and just import cheaper stuff from abroad.

'UK does not need fruit pickers', says Jacob Rees-Mogg as farmers hit back

Mr Rees-Mogg has been criticised by farming bodies after calling on 'cheap food imports' to replace seasonal workers in the UK

www.farmersguardian.com

 

[BLOCK F]

I respect 'centre righty' posters, but didn't the current cabal actually get rid of them over Brexit and leave us with 'extreme righties?' .... you know, the ones who have ruined the cohesion of our country and severely damaged our economy and reputation?

Do you 'respect' them?

I respect those politicians of all shades who I believe deserve respect, for example the late Alistair Darling. I thoroughly disapproved of the action against the likes of Ken Clarke and other moderates and so I cannot truly respect those who actively brought that about. However, politics is a dirty game, whatever colours you wear and I dare say, for whatever reasons, some decent people on both sides of the house have done things they may privately regret or feel rather ashamed about.

 

[clapham_gull]

Top undercover reporting by the Evening Standard, who have tracked the youth responsible for Mayoral Candidate Susan Hall's stolen Oyster card.

** Warning: The following story contains details of a violent crime that was committed on the London Underground **

Mr Andani (69) said: “That person was ready to get out at Kingsbury. My wife saw that there was some wallet stuck between two seats. We asked him. He looked behind and said: ‘It’s not mine.’ We picked it up and found a Freedom Pass and some money inside.

“Luckily there was a business card with a phone number. We got out at Queensbury. I called Susan but she didn’t pick up, so I left a message. She didn’t call for a couple of hours so I called again. She picked up the phone. I told her that we had found this wallet.

“I said: 'I’m in Queensbury.' She said: 'I will come over.' When we handed it over to her she was so pleased. She was so happy. She said so many times, thank you very, very much. I feel she was very, very pleased.”

 

[Lever]

I respect those politicians of all shades who I believe deserve respect, for example the late Alistair Darling. I thoroughly disapproved of the action against the likes of Ken Clarke and other moderates and so I cannot truly respect those who actively brought that about. However, politics is a dirty game, whatever colours you wear and I dare say, for whatever reasons, some decent people on both sides of the house have done things they may privately regret or feel rather ashamed about.

I agree with much of this; the problem is you seem to parcel off all these as if they were misdemeanours of equal impact. A mendacious narcissist has brought faith in government to its lowest ever level by consistent (lifelong?) undermining of people's trust.... 'Levelling up' and whataboutery on this is inappropriate https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-50-lies-gaffes-26013022

 

[Simster]

Top undercover reporting by the Evening Standard, who have tracked the youth responsible for Mayoral Candidate Susan Hall's stolen Oyster card.

** Warning: The following story contains details of a violent crime that was committed on the London Underground **

A typical tale of horror that Grotbags herself so often complains about in "Khan's London"

 

[BLOCK F]

I agree with much of this; the problem is you seem to parcel off all these as if they were misdemeanours of equal impact. A mendacious narcissist has brought faith in government to its lowest ever level by consistent (lifelong?) undermining of people's trust.... 'Levelling up' and whataboutery on this is inappropriate https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-50-lies-gaffes-26013022

Not at all, I don’t know where you got this impression from.
I have absolutely no time for Johnson and I believe him to be an appalling fellow.
I don’t think we have much to disagree about on this subject.

 

[Lever]

Agreed and sorry for my presumption. I know Johnson wasn't really a tory (just Club Johnson), but the very thought of the immense and lasting damage that man has done to the reputation of our government/country still makes my blood boil...... and I fear he has set a precedent that other unscrupulous politicians will follow.....

 

[WATFORD zero]

Agreed and sorry for my presumption. I know Johnson wasn't really a tory (just Club Johnson), but the very thought of the immense and lasting damage that man has done to the reputation of our government/country still makes my blood boil...... and I fear he has set a precedent that other unscrupulous politicians will follow.....

I think you mean already followed unless Truss, Kwarteng, Patel, Sunak, Braverman etc was just some horrendous nightmare that we've still yet to wake up from.

The centre right are as far as they've ever been from getting their party back

 

[Lever]

I think you mean already followed unless Truss, Kwarteng, Patel, Sunak, Braverman etc was just some horrendous nightmare that we've still yet to wake up from.

The centre right are as far as they've ever been from getting their party back

Yes that is exactly what I mean. Thank you.

 

[BLOCK F]

I think you mean already followed unless Truss, Kwarteng, Patel, Sunak, Braverman etc was just some horrendous nightmare that we've still yet to wake up from.

The centre right are as far as they've ever been from getting their party back

It will happen though.
The only way to win a General Election is really to stick to middle territory, Left or Right.
How long will it take? Well it depends on how successful Keir et al are when they form the next Government, how patient the electorate are with the Labour Government if they need more time to successfully do it their way, and finally, how long it takes for the Conservatives to regather, come to their senses under new blood and re-form as sensible centre rightists. My view is that it will probably take two terms in Opposition for the Tories to succeed in a General Election.

 

[A1X]

Just to add some context to the “everyone hates ULEZ” stuff

 

[TomandJerry]

Jeremy Hunt has blamed Brexit for more than half a decade of political instability that has undermined business investment in the UK, as he sought to defend tax cuts paid for by public sector austerity to drive up economic growth

The chancellor said the outcome of the 2016 EU referendum had led to “political chop and change”, before the Covid pandemic added to turbulence at the heart of government.

 

[Stato]

Jeremy Hunt has blamed Brexit for more than half a decade of political instability that has undermined business investment in the UK, as he sought to defend tax cuts paid for by public sector austerity to drive up economic growth

The chancellor said the outcome of the 2016 EU referendum had led to “political chop and change”, before the Covid pandemic added to turbulence at the heart of government.

- We have to do austerity because of the instability caused by the Brexit vote. The Brexit vote that followed six years of austerity. The Brexit vote that Cameron lost because of a backlash against the damage done by austerity. If the leeches and bleeding don't work, try more leeches and bleeding. George III's doctors are running our country.

Meanwhile Biden has the fastest growing economy in the world, perhaps because he's old enough to remember that Keynesian investment can dig a country out of hole.

 

[Machiavelli]

- We have to do austerity because of the instability caused by the Brexit vote. The Brexit vote that followed six years of austerity. The Brexit vote that Cameron lost because of a backlash against the damage done by austerity. If the leeches and bleeding don't work, try more leeches and bleeding. George III's doctors are running our country.

Meanwhile Biden has the fastest growing economy in the world, perhaps because he's old enough to remember that Keynesian investment can dig a country out of hole.

Yup. Some of us have been saying this for, ooo, about a decade but we were told we didn't understand economics

 

[Thunder Bolt]

A pre-cursor to means testing State pensions?

 

[Ooh it’s a corner]

A pre-cursor to means testing State pensions?

Blimey!

 

[A1X]

A pre-cursor to means testing State pensions?

Would this have been at about the time everyone was being distracted by the Elgin Marbles, by chance?