[Football] We are no better than last season at this point FACT

[London Irish]

Everyone recognises that, I honestly don't think you'll find a single albion fan who doesn't because it would be ludicrous not to.

The club wanted to change our playing style, and where we will disagree I'm sure is that CH was not the man to do that. An increased budget playing the same way may or may not have kept us up. Radically changing the system with an increased budget may or may not keep us up. The decision was made to move forward with a different playing style and CH, for all other things he does well, does not do change gladly.

I get this awkward feeling with you still posting on here, like you are just waiting for things to turn sour so you can stick the boot in. I seem to remember you being less than complimentary of our owner not so long ago, so you clearly aren't 'one of us'.

He's actually praised Potter in the post you are replying to, be fair

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

The club wanted to change our playing style, and where we will disagree I'm sure is that CH was not the man to do that. An increased budget playing the same way may or may not have kept us up. Radically changing the system with an increased budget may or may not keep us up. The decision was made to move forward with a different playing style and CH, for all other things he does well, does not do change gladly.

It is clear that the club's hierarchy wanted to go in a different direction - and that is their prerogative. But it is nonsense to suggest that Hughton wouldn't or couldn't have changed his style. His Newcastle team in the PL played with a lot of flair - and they have a season very similar to the one Potter is having at the moment - some really outstanding performances (6-0 against Villa, 5-1 against Sunderland) and some turds (0-2 at home to Blackpool, 1-5 away to Bolton). Hughton worked to get the best out of the players at his disposal - and despite managing 3 clubs with small budgets he has never been relegated as a manager).

I get this awkward feeling with you still posting on here, like you are just waiting for things to turn sour so you can stick the boot in. I seem to remember you being less than complimentary of our owner not so long ago, so you clearly aren't 'one of us'.

On what basis do you make this claim?

Have I said anything negative about Potter, about the team or about the results this season. I don't think Brighton will be relegated - the squad is good enough to stay up comfortably - and if things do take a nosedive then it will be very unfortunate. There are several poorer teams in the PL - Norwich, Villa, Watford - and you could argue Bournemouth, West Ham, Southampton and Burnley as well. Brighton only have to finish ahead of 3 of them and it will have been a successful season.

He's actually praised Potter in the post you are replying to, be fair

Some people see only what they want to see.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

The games against WHU and Fulham made CH revert to defending and taking no risks. It was his and our undoing..imo

We were murdered at Newcastle and rode our luck with a lucky goal, again imo. Apart from WHU and Fulham I don’t recall us taking the game to anyone else away from home. Memory is fuzzy but weren’t we 2-0 down at Southampton. All four of the teams mentioned were piss poor all season too.

But we weren’t ‘ultra’ defensive which is the point, yes, we were two down at Stains.

I do feel we were defensive and played on the break, which for the first half of the season was successful as our position at Christmas showed.

Very similar in style to Sheff Utd for me. Incidentally they had 2 shots on target against us.

We only went ‘ultra’ defensive at Wolves and Spurs..... I mean look at Norwich at our place and even Burnley, 0 and 1 shot on target, yet I wouldn’t say they were ‘ultra’ defensive either.


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[London Irish]

Well we won at Newcastle, went 2-0 up at West Ham and Fulham, plus scored twice at Stains, which would suggest we were anything other than ultra defensive.

How many chances did Sheff Utd create other than a set-piece? One perhaps two, very similar to ourselves.

Very well organised and difficult to breakdown, though it was a poor performance by ourselves.


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Yep, good parallel with the Blades

 

[Weststander]

Definitely a couple of NSC’s who’d feel vindicated by our May 20 relegation.

 

[LamieRobertson]

When always positive and loyal supporters such as you started feeling that way, and similarly some mod’s couldn’t be arsed to attend some Amex PL matches, in hindsight, all signs that the writing was on the wall. We now know that lifelong fan TB was equally p’d off.

I left when Bmuff made it 3-0, thought I’d sneak away to get on the first park n ride bus. Wrong. Met by many thousand glum-looking, silent folk there already.

Easiest day ever to get out of the Bridge car park because I stayed until the end..small consolation for my madness

 

[drew]

Fantastic, how have we ended up with less points at this point then? Is there a website called infodefensive****ups.net where we can check that

It's simple, use your eyes!!! Anyone watching us play now can see a significant improvement from last year. Also, use your common sense. Last year we had three extremely fortunate wins against West Ham, Wolves and Newcastle that gave us an extra lucky 9 points. In the games this year, how many of our points have been lucky and not deserved? If anything, we have deserved more.

With regard to goals, last year we scored two or more on 6 occasions throughout the season in the league. So far, we have done it on 7 times this season.

If you want to spend your life pouring over stats and getting satisfaction from that, be my guest but I much prefer watching what happens on the pitch.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Or alternatively the standard of the top 6 has dropped and Leicester have improved.

I mean Spurs are a lot worse, Arsenal haven’t improved and Chelsea and Utd have also gone backwards.

In fact even City defensively are a shadow of last season

There has been a bunching across the entire division - Liverpool, Leicester and Wolves seem to have progressed - after that I think Sheff Utd, and Brighton have probably been the most impressive. Most of the rest have gone backwards. Watford have been brutal most of the season - and it is only Deeney's goals that have helped them (same with Ings).

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

It's simple, use your eyes!!! Anyone watching us play now can see a significant improvement from last year. Also, use your common sense. Last year we had three extremely fortunate wins against West Ham, Wolves and Newcastle that gave us an extra lucky 9 points. In the games this year, how many of our points have been lucky and not deserved? If anything, we have deserved more.

With regard to goals, last year we scored two or more on 6 occasions throughout the season in the league. So far, we have done it on 7 times this season.

If you want to spend your life pouring over stats and getting satisfaction from that, be my guest but I much prefer watching what happens on the pitch.

Again - you cannot make these comparisons - it is a different season, different dynamics at play - different squads - different managers - different players - players a year older etc. All you can analyse is the stats - and they are limited in what they can tell. 'Luck' does not come into it at any point - it is completely subjective.

 

[Weststander]

It's simple, use your eyes!!! Last year we had three extremely fortunate wins against West Ham, Wolves and Newcastle that gave us an extra lucky 9 points.

That’s irrefutable. In March another NSC’er took me to a meet-CH evening in the Amex Lounge. Chris brought up the subject of those three matches, saying “We were completely outplayed, they didn’t go to plan, we had some fortune”. Respect for his honesty.

 

[Icy Gull]

But we weren’t ‘ultra’ defensive which is the point, yes, we were two down at Stains.

I do feel we were defensive and played on the break, which for the first half of the season was successful as our position at Christmas showed.

Very similar in style to Sheff Utd for me. Incidentally they had 2 shots on target against us.

We only went ‘ultra’ defensive at Wolves and Spurs..... I mean look at Norwich at our place and even Burnley, 0 and 1 shot on target, yet I wouldn’t say they were ‘ultra’ defensive either.


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We are going to have to agree to differ. I can’t see any similarities in the way Sheffield United play and how we played for most of last season, except how solid they are in defence. They have scared the shit out of most sides when attacking even top six teams. You don’t go half the season without getting beat away from home playing like we did last season and I can’t think of more than a small handful of away games last season when we scared the shit out of the opposition whilst not losing the game either. I would have been bloody delighted if we played like SU and CH would 100% still be manager.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Definitely a couple of NSC’s who’d feel vindicated by our May 20 relegation.

We won’t go down, but there appears to be ongoing criticism of Hughton, which I feel is unfair.

There is more than one way of playing football. His strength is organising teams defensively, the first half of the season proved that. The second part was poor, but a bottom 3 budgeted team finished 4th from bottom.

My own frustrations with Hughton was the lack ability to switch systems, non-playing of youngsters and late substitutions, all of which Potter is better at.

My frustration with Potter is the apparent defensive frailty we now have. The football is better offensively, we are just missing another offensive presence.

I llove the fact Alzate is playing and Connolly is promising as well.


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[rogersix]

He's actually praised Potter in the post you are replying to, be fair

It is clear that the club's hierarchy wanted to go in a different direction - and that is their prerogative. But it is nonsense to suggest that Hughton wouldn't or couldn't have changed his style. His Newcastle team in the PL played with a lot of flair - and they have a season very similar to the one Potter is having at the moment - some really outstanding performances (6-0 against Villa, 5-1 against Sunderland) and some turds (0-2 at home to Blackpool, 1-5 away to Bolton). Hughton worked to get the best out of the players at his disposal - and despite managing 3 clubs with small budgets he has never been relegated as a manager).


On what basis do you make this claim?

Have I said anything negative about Potter, about the team or about the results this season. I don't think Brighton will be relegated - the squad is good enough to stay up comfortably - and if things do take a nosedive then it will be very unfortunate. There are several poorer teams in the PL - Norwich, Villa, Watford - and you could argue Bournemouth, West Ham, Southampton and Burnley as well. Brighton only have to finish ahead of 3 of them and it will have been a successful season.



Some people see only what they want to see.

are you two mother and daughter?

 

[Nixonator]

It is clear that the club's hierarchy wanted to go in a different direction - and that is their prerogative. But it is nonsense to suggest that Hughton wouldn't or couldn't have changed his style. His Newcastle team in the PL played with a lot of flair - and they have a season very similar to the one Potter is having at the moment - some really outstanding performances (6-0 against Villa, 5-1 against Sunderland) and some turds (0-2 at home to Blackpool, 1-5 away to Bolton). Hughton worked to get the best out of the players at his disposal - and despite managing 3 clubs with small budgets he has never been relegated as a manager).

Agree to disagree. Both are opinions and speculation. You are using his previous spells as manager as evidence, we as albion fans saw the evidence first hand when he tried to change system a number of times with a very similar squad as Potter has now. CH has a certain way of playing and he is very good at setting it up, I would be shocked if at his next job he doesn't play in exactly the same fashion.

On what basis do you make this claim?

Have I said anything negative about Potter, about the team or about the results this season. I don't think Brighton will be relegated - the squad is good enough to stay up comfortably - and if things do take a nosedive then it will be very unfortunate. There are several poorer teams in the PL - Norwich, Villa, Watford - and you could argue Bournemouth, West Ham, Southampton and Burnley as well. Brighton only have to finish ahead of 3 of them and it will have been a successful season.

Some people see only what they want to see.

I base the first claim on a feeling, having read many of your posts, largely on the basis that you have no love for Brighton and a lot of love for Hughton. The second claim is based on posts I could actually quote if I was bothered enough where you openly criticised TB with a certain degree of ignorance.

I mean, I'm open to and enjoy reading all perspectives so I have no problem with you being here, but I can't shake the feeling that you'd be entirely satisfied if things take a bad turn for us.

 

[Weststander]

We are going to have to agree to differ. I can’t see any similarities in the way Sheffield United play and how we played for most of last season, except how solid they are in defence. They have scared the shit out of most sides when attacking even top six teams. You don’t go half the season without getting beat playing like we did last season and I can’t think of more than a small handful of away games last season when we scared the shit out of the opposition whilst not losing the game either. I would have been bloody delighted if we played like SU and CH would 100% still be manager.

Annoyingly Sheff Utd were an effective machine, every player outstanding in his role, in the manner that they completely outplayed us. Unbeaten away from home for 11.5 months. McGoldrick and McBurnie should’ve grabbed more goals. Wilder is doing an incredible job.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Yep, good parallel with the Blades

Hello? Any news on our bet? You seem to be ignoring it.

Don’t worry. I’ll shove a fifty REMF’s way if we get 36 points or less anyway. NSC can judge your level of CJTCness for not accepting it.


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[One Teddy Maybank]

Annoyingly Sheff Utd were an effective machine, every player outstanding in his role, in the manner that they completely outplayed us. Unbeaten away from home for 11.5 months. McGoldrick and McBurnie should’ve grabbed more goals. Wilder is doing an incredible job.

Completely outthought us is more accurate, as per my earlier post two shots on target suggest otherwise and their goal and other best chance from open play was as a result of the hapless Webster performance.

For me this is the only game Potter has got it wrong, surely against a well organised team you play with width, but his substitutions actually made us more narrow. Everyone has off days and IMO that was his. Yesterday for example was a master stroke....


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[Weststander]

We won’t go down, but there appears to be ongoing criticism of Hughton, which I feel is unfair.

There is more than one way of playing football. His strength is organising teams defensively, the first half of the season proved that. The second part was poor, but a bottom 3 budgeted team finished 4th from bottom.

My own frustrations with Hughton was the lack ability to switch systems, non-playing of youngsters and late substitutions, all of which Potter is better at.

My frustration with Potter is the apparent defensive frailty we now have. The football is better offensively, we are just missing another offensive presence.

I llove the fact Alzate is playing and Connolly is promising as well.


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I from the camp (a majority?), who love what CH did for the club, a legend, giving so many unforgettable moments in the Championship and PL. All his doing (with a great owner bankrolling it).

But the home performances and results from Feb19 onwards were utter garbage, so there was no consolation left for the endless ‘roll over and have our tummy tickled’ dire away outings.

Many, many supporters including the owner were angry, bored stiff and fed up. We stunk the PL out, with the bottom 3.

All good things come to an end. Sadly it was time for a new approach.

 

[Trevor]

I'm not sure it's revisionist, it's more that we all suppress the negatives (or most of us do) whilst whoever we're talking about is still associated with the club.

On balance, CH was a tremendous manager for us and I will always remember and appreciate his contribution. However, he had many negatives. I distinctly remember periods of exasperation and frustration when leaving games with the same tired old decisions made.

In 15/16 I remember where we sat desperately on 1 goal leads when we looked the far better team and could have killed games off without his intransigent caution. I remember walking away from the Derby home game utterly perplexed.

In 16/17 lest any of us forget the absurd finish to our title deserving campaign, Bristol City at home and particularly Villa away where we decided to shut up shop (with a man advantage) against a poor team who we were on top of for most of the match. Perhaps the players lost us the Norwich away fixture, maybe even Bristol City at home too, but Hughton cost us the three title winning points at the Villa away game with his inexorably pragmatic approach.

In 17/18, as a regular away goer, I can't even describe the feeling of travelling to watch us. Aside from a severely poor Swansea team and a good night in Stratford, there was little to celebrate. We basically only did it because it was some new grounds for many of us, the football was secondary because it was so dire and negative.

In 18/19 our away form was slightly better I think in the first half of the season, but we all know what happened in the second half. I was seriously questioning why I was doing it, particularly as we could no longer rely on our home form so a sense of hope came back into the mix for the away slogs which made it all the worse.

After the Cardiff game, I was done. Despite the prior frustrations I still felt he was the man for us until the final whistle blew in that game. It was utterly horrific, yet still after a couple days reflection I went back onto team CH. As history tells us, Tony didn't.

There are also frustrations and criticisms of Potter, but nobody wants to talk about them because we're doing okay and he's still the man in the hotseat. I understand the willing ignorance to pretend everything CH touched turned to gold and that he didn't put a foot wrong aside from a 5 month period earlier this year, to remember him for all the good he did and leave out the negatives. It's a respectful approach, but if someone wants to highlight those negatives I don't think they should be reprimanded for doing so.

Yes, fair enough. Any balanced view is fine by me and I wasn't taking any type of a personal pop and wasn't reprimanding you. I think we agree about the good and bad CH points broadly - and probably Potter as well I expect. these days we are too often "dominating" games and getting nothing. Some of this is down to the approach. For myself, I am enjoying it much more. I feel we have a slightly better chance of staying up than we would have had with CH but not by a huge amount. I agreed with the decision and exactly at the time it happened. Thoroughly wish CH every success professionally and personally - and I'm Team Potter now

 

[Weststander]

Completely outthought us is more accurate, as per my earlier post two shots on target suggest otherwise and their goal and other best chance from open play was as a result of the hapless Webster performance.

For me this is the only game Potter has got it wrong, surely against a well organised team you play with width, but his substitutions actually made us more narrow. Everyone has off days and IMO that was his. Yesterday for example was a master stroke....


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I think GP got it wrong too:

1. Defensively a huge gap between Dunk and Webster.
2. CM not packed with power to win that key battle.
3. Inflexible. After seeing Wilder’s lot push us back from KO and create openings, VAR coming to our aid, GP changed nowt.

A depressing match to see unravel.

But wins/performances over Spuds, at the Emirates, at Vicarage Road, plus others, have made this an enjoyable 4 and a bit months in the main.