[Football] We are no better than last season at this point FACT

[FatSuperman]

Completely outthought us is more accurate, as per my earlier post two shots on target suggest otherwise and their goal and other best chance from open play was as a result of the hapless Webster performance.

For me this is the only game Potter has got it wrong, surely against a well organised team you play with width, but his substitutions actually made us more narrow. Everyone has off days and IMO that was his. Yesterday for example was a master stroke....

Sheffield United remind me of Huddersfield and Wagner’s first PL season with them. All players doing a brilliant job, battling for everything, dying on the pitch every match. Second season syndrome and they crashed horribly. Clearly, SU and Chris Wilder might not go that way, only time will tell. Have they largely the same squad as they did in League 1?

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

I from the camp (a majority?), who love what CH did for the club, a legend, giving so many unforgettable moments in the Championship and PL. All his doing (with a great owner bankrolling it).

But the home performances and results from Feb19 onwards were utter garbage, so there was no consolation left for the endless ‘roll over and have our tummy tickled’ dire away outings.

Many, many supporters including the owner were angry, bored stiff and fed up. We stunk the PL out, with the bottom 3.

All good things come to an end. Sadly it was time for a new approach.

Yes they were poor, no doubt about it.
But we had nothing offensively in our armoury, not that there is any evidence he would have used it. So naturally you resort to your strength...... defence, but even that went pear shaped.

I mean Maupay is an infinitely better signing than Locadia.

Personally, I would have given him a couple of months and a transfer window, but I totally understand that equally a new manager needs a transfer window too.....
At the minute it looks the right move and the only blip performance wise has been Sheff Utd and Man Utd. I’d take 14th......


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[Jolly Red Giant]

Agree to disagree. Both are opinions and speculation. You are using his previous spells as manager as evidence, we as albion fans saw the evidence first hand when he tried to change system a number of times with a very similar squad as Potter has now. CH has a certain way of playing and he is very good at setting it up, I would be shocked if at his next job he doesn't play in exactly the same fashion.

I am demonstrating that Hughton has the success and experience of few other PL managers of keeping teams in the PL - and the first two seasons are by far and away the most difficult seasons for promoted clubs.

The squad is not similar - Potter got 3 players this season that cost more than any player signed during Hughton's tenure - on top of that he has Mooy would would also have cost another transfer record - and two kids coming through from the underage set up. Half the first team has changed - and they are better than what Hughton had to work with last season (with the possible exception of Webster). Yes - Hughton does have a different approach than Potter - and his approach has been a success at all the clubs where he has managed.

I base the first claim on a feeling, having read many of your posts, largely on the basis that you have no love for Brighton and a lot of love for Hughton.

Your feeling is based on false assumptions - please demonstrated that I 'have no love for Brighton'?

I admire Hughton - I think he is a very under-rated manager and I was opposed to his sacking last May - anything else is supposition.

The second claim is based on posts I could actually quote if I was bothered enough where you openly criticised TB with a certain degree of ignorance.

Yes I have criticised Bloom - but I would disagree that it is based on 'a certain degree of ignorance' - I have a dislike of very rich individuals buying football clubs (whatever their motivations) and I believe the evidence demonstrates that eventually it tends to go belly-up at some point. I hate the way money dominates football and how money has taken the game away from its working class roots. I think it is obnoxious that football players can paid £1m a week while other professional footballers can be forced to survive on as little £250 a week. Back to Bloom - I think information has come out that demonstrate the club's hierarchy were a little disingenuous when they sacked Hughton.

And as I have repeatedly said - things have moved on - the club made its decision - Potter is doing a good job so far - yet people keep attempting to make false comparisons between Potter and Hughton. People should be recognising and respecting the achievements of Hughton while he was here and enjoying the ride this season.

I mean, I'm open to and enjoy reading all perspectives so I have no problem with you being here, but I can't shake the feeling that you'd be entirely satisfied if things take a bad turn for us.

So because you have a 'feeling' that is not based on any concrete evidence - you adopt a biased approach to my comments. Why not take the comments at face value - and if it does turn out that I act the prick if things went south then you would have grounds for calling me out on it. But do you seriously think I would just be hanging around here (defending Hughton's record - but making largely positive comments about the team this season) - just on the off-chance that Brighton might get relegated (that doesn't look like happening) - just so I could troll for a day or two at the end of the season?

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Sheffield United remind me of Huddersfield and Wagner’s first PL season with them. All players doing a brilliant job, battling for everything, dying on the pitch every match. Second season syndrome and they crashed horribly. Clearly, SU and Chris Wilder might not go that way, only time will tell. Have they largely the same squad as they did in League 1?

Yes I think you’re right.
All have a great attitude, well organised, but the second season will establish whether they’re Burnley or Huddersfield.


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[Jolly Red Giant]

Sheffield United remind me of Huddersfield and Wagner’s first PL season with them. All players doing a brilliant job, battling for everything, dying on the pitch every match. Second season syndrome and they crashed horribly. Clearly, SU and Chris Wilder might not go that way, only time will tell. Have they largely the same squad as they did in League 1?

It is a good comparison - and SU are likely to find next season very tough - other teams will know how they play and will adjust accordingly. And there are only two players in the squad from the L1 days - O'Connell and Fleck. But they do have a decent - and improving - squad. Egan and Stevens will be mainstays in the Rep of Ireland team for the next 4-5 years. O'Connell and Lundstrum are improving, Robinson in under-rated and Mousset could turn out to be very good.

 

[Weststander]

Yes they were poor, no doubt about it.
But we had nothing offensively in our armoury, not that there is any evidence he would have used it. So naturally you resort to your strength...... defence, but even that went pear shaped.

I mean Maupay is an infinitely better signing than Locadia.

Personally, I would have given him a couple of months and a transfer window, but I totally understand that equally a new manager needs a transfer window too.....
At the minute it looks the right move and the only blip performance wise has been Sheff Utd and Man Utd. I’d take 14th......


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Agree about Maupay .... imho better than Locadia and Andone.

(CH did work with Winstanley on those signings, he shares some responsibility).

Similarly Mooy .... the creative midfielder, with an engine and mobility, we’ve lacked until now for many seasons.

 

[dazzer6666]

Here’s a stat for you. Last season our expected goals were 1.1 a game and we scored 0.9 a game. This season it is expected 1.4 and actual 1.2. We are statistically more attacking and entertaining. Go have a look at infogoal.net


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**** the stats, I’m actually ENJOYING watching us this season.

Potter has had 20 games (30 hours of match time) to completely change the way we play. To do that, and STILL have a similar points total to the same stage last season (which included several points we barely deserved) is bloody remarkable IMO. I’ll eat my hat if we don’t significantly improve on last season’s second half points total.

 

[jessiejames]

But we weren’t ‘ultra’ defensive which is the point, yes, we were two down at Stains.

I do feel we were defensive and played on the break, which for the first half of the season was successful as our position at Christmas showed.

Very similar in style to Sheff Utd for me. Incidentally they had 2 shots on target against us.

We only went ‘ultra’ defensive at Wolves and Spurs..... I mean look at Norwich at our place and even Burnley, 0 and 1 shot on target, yet I wouldn’t say they were ‘ultra’ defensive either.


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We were ultra defensive against Southampton, Newcastle, Bournmouth, Cardiff and Huddersfield near the end of last season, look at the stats for shots at these games. We were at home and all against relegation rivals, games we should have looked to win. I spoke to a certain player after one of those games and asked what were the game plan, he just shook his head and said "we were told don't concede".
If this was any manager other than nice guy C H, the media would have been criticised for not getting rid.
Chris done an amazing job for us and will always be welcome to the Amex by not only me but I am sure many others on here, but it was the right time to make the change.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Agree about Maupay .... imho better than Locadia and Andone.

(CH did work with Winstanley on those signings, he shares some responsibility).

Similarly Mooy .... the creative midfielder, with an engine and mobility, we’ve lacked until now for many seasons.

I just wonder how much ‘work’ he did, or was it the Moneyball approach and a list, and ‘these are your options’. Who knows?

Mooy is outstanding.


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[Iggle Piggle]

I will regret engaging with [MENTION=33329]Jolly Red Giant[/MENTION] but having read the last few pages.

1. You continue to refer in this thread to shoestring budgets that Hughton had to work with. That is clearly bollocks. He was backed by the owners. CH also said the squad was full this time last year. Hardly the words of someone who wanted more backing

https://www.theargus.co.uk/sport/16...soar-past-100m-spent-on-premier-league-deals/

2. Alzate and Connelly were here last year. To say they weren't at his disposal is disingenuous. We haven't got them in from Inter Milan and Real Madrid. They were farmed out to Luton and Swindon.

3.How do you believe Hughton kept us up against the odds? At no point last year were we over 50% to go down with the bookmakers (and were as low as 4% in Jan 2019) . I believe without checking our wage bill was 17th. Keeping us up was par.

For the record, I believe CH largely did a fantastic job for us until about this time last year when the wheels fell off. The transformation of how we play in the short time GP has been here has been remarkable. Bringing through Alzate and Connelly whilst potting off Andone and Locadia could have cost him his job but he clearly has an eye for a player good or bad. He WILL end up at a top 6 club at some point. To suggest we'd have chucked in the youth and be playing this expansive if CH was still here ignores the evidence of the past 2 years. If in doubt we largely went back to the Championship team.

 

[Springal]

**** the stats, I’m actually ENJOYING watching us this season.

Potter has had 20 games (30 hours of match time) to completely change the way we play. To do that, and STILL have a similar points total to the same stage last season (which included several points we barely deserved) is bloody remarkable IMO. I’ll eat my hat if we don’t significantly improve on last season’s second half points total.

Agreed. One transfer window with a squad he had just got, had to ship out some of the deadwood he inherited, including a £15M striker. A striker we’d been chasing for years, and an up until yesterday useless £17M winger.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

**** the stats, I’m actually ENJOYING watching us this season.

Potter has had 20 games (30 hours of match time) to completely change the way we play. To do that, and STILL have a similar points total to the same stage last season (which included several points we barely deserved) is bloody remarkable IMO. I’ll eat my hat if we don’t significantly improve on last season’s second half points total.

That. We won't be cheering on Palace to do a number on some shithouse bottom 3 team this year.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

We were ultra defensive against Southampton, Newcastle, Bournmouth, Cardiff and Huddersfield near the end of last season, look at the stats for shots at these games.

Sorry I don’t agree.
We just played appallingly badly....
Had no offensive plan, but were not ultra defensive.


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[Weststander]

I just wonder how much ‘work’ he did, or was it the Moneyball approach and a list, and ‘these are your options’. Who knows?

Mooy is outstanding.


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CH wouldn’t been involved in the scouting obviously, but at the initial stage on his needs, and then reviewing the results from Winstanley team’s analysis/reports.

 

[Stat Brother]

Yes they were poor, no doubt about it.
But we had nothing offensively in our armoury, not that there is any evidence he would have used it. So naturally you resort to your strength...... defence, but even that went pear shaped.

I mean Maupay is an infinitely better signing than Locadia.

Personally, I would have given him a couple of months and a transfer window, but I totally understand that equally a new manager needs a transfer window too.....
At the minute it looks the right move and the only blip performance wise has been Sheff Utd and Man Utd. I’d take 14th......


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Mr Bloom wanted GPott.

Any delay in changing the manager would have resulted in losing Potter, possibly forever.

A lot of the noise being needlessly repeated, ad nauseum, keeps losing sight of that simple fact.

 

[jessiejames]

Sorry I don’t agree.
We just played appallingly badly....
Had no offensive plan, but were not ultra defensive.


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Sorry but fear of conceding to me means ultra defensive. It has been said that there was a bust up at training due to fact that the training was all about defensive play, we had an offensive plan at the start of the season, I wonder what happened to that.

 

[dazzer6666]

Mr Bloom wanted GPott.

Any delay in changing the manager would have resulted in losing Potter, possibly forever.

A lot of the noise being needlessly repeated, ad nauseum, keeps losing sight of that simple fact.

100%

I wouldn’t be surprised if that was TB’s plan 2-3 years back

Stage 1 - who can keep us up in the championship after the Sami debacle (get Hughton)

Stage 2 - who can get us promoted ? (Hughton has a great track record, I’ll keep him but know his limitations if he gets us up)

Stage 3 - who can consolidate our PL position? (Probably Hughton, so I’ll stick with him for a couple of seasons but will be looking for his successor......all the data we have on that Potter bloke looks good)

Stage 4 - ‘kinell, we’re making a mess of this, I need to get Potter in asap. Risk-based decision, I’ll keep Hughton until the end of the season but I need to give Potter as much time as possible pre-season.

 

[CaptainDaveUK]

We simply cannot compare last season to this. Loved CH but it was, in hindsight time to move on. We are significantly better. FACT.

 

[Icy Gull]

Sorry but fear of conceding to me means ultra defensive. It has been said that there was a bust up at training due to fact that the training was all about defensive play, we had an offensive plan at the start of the season, I wonder what happened to that.

WHU and Fulham away put paid to it

 

[Guinness Boy]

**** the stats, I’m actually ENJOYING watching us this season.

Potter has had 20 games (30 hours of match time) to completely change the way we play. To do that, and STILL have a similar points total to the same stage last season (which included several points we barely deserved) is bloody remarkable IMO. I’ll eat my hat if we don’t significantly improve on last season’s second half points total.

Oh 100%

The thing is, the xG stats are the best statistical analysis of WHY we are enjoying it more. Art meets science. And [MENTION=1483]London Irish[/MENTION] runs off for a cry in the corner.