[Football] We are no better than last season at this point FACT

[Triggaaar]

Yep, I think 40 points may not be enough this season.

There are currently 5 teams on a point per game or less, so no reason yet to think a point per game +2 won't be enough.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

And I have to go through this again - jeez



1. When you get promoted you have to buy players - and it is a lot harder to get players to join a promoted club than a club that is established in the PL. This season Villa spent more than £100million - last season Fulham spent more than £120million - Wolves spent £100million last season and another £90million this season. More importantly - Birghton's budget for players salaries was 18th in the PL - 11 of the Southampton players (who finished with 3 points more than Brighton last season) were paid more than the highest paid player at Brighton last season - including 2 who were on double the wages. Yes Brighton spent money - but it was still a bottom 3 budget and borderline players that Hughton had to work with. This season Brighton broke their transfer record 3 times - and effectively signed a fourth player who would also have broken the record on loan - and this was building on top of those who had been brought in the previous two seasons. It takes time to build a PL squad.

2. Alzate and Connolly were both injured for months - yet people on here keep claiming that Hughton should have played them. They are a year older and a year more mature and are contributing (and long may it continue).

3. The odds of a promoted team being relegated in the first two seasons after promotion are huge - most go back down - Norwich and Villa could go straight back down this year - Last year Huddersfield went down in their second season along with Cardiff and Fulham who had just been promoted - the year before Hull and Middlesbrough went straight back down. You have a 2/3 chance of going back down in the first two seasons. Keeping a team up for two seasons - particularly with the budget Brighton had - was a remarkable achievement - and people should acknowledge it.

4. Potter has done well - but it is a major question whether he could have kept Brighton up for the last two seasons with the style of football he plays and the players that Hughton had at his disposal. As for spotting a good player - Potter intended sending Connolly out on loan until David Weir persuaded him not to, after seeing Connolly playing for Ireland in the underage tournament in Toulon in June. Hughton has been highly praising of Connolly this season - and there is no reason to think he would not have played him. We can disagree on this point - but neither of us can know for definite what would have happened. Hughton has used (and purchased) young players in the past when they were good enough and ready to play. Would the team be playing the expansive football like Potter if Hughton was the manager - unlikely - but it would also be better organised defensively - and you need to do the job at both ends of the pitch.

Hughton had a job - keep the team in the PL - he succeeded in that. The club's hierarchy chose to go in a different direction - and that is their choice - and it has worked out very well so far - but that does not in any way diminish what Hughton achieved at Brighton over the previous 4 years. As for Potter - we have no idea where he will end up - you claim he 'WILL' end up with a top 6 club - based on 20 games and 6 wins in the PL - that claim is a bit of a stretch and it will take a lot more time and success in the PL before he is mentioned as a possible candidate for any of those jobs. I hope he does - every manager who puts his reputation on the line deserves success - and Hughton has done that repeatedly and deserves to have his achievements acknowledged and respected. After that - the football this season has been entertaining and people should enjoy the ride instead of repeatedly feeling that they must make comparisons.

The reason I called you out was the digs at TB in previous posts. My personal belief is that he is the best owner in the PL if not the 92. Where do you rate him? Southampton - for example - are an accident waiting to happen in that regard. This is why I believe we are on the up and why the likes of Stoke will Improve sooner or later. Ownership and overall leadership are never given enough credit in football. You use language such as 'shoestring' and 'very likely to be relegated' both in post #380. These do not have anything like the nuance of your reply.

Again, CH deserves immense credit for years 1-4. He has been 1 of the best managers in our history. Michael Vaughan wouldn't have been as successful wihout Nasser. That's how I feel about Potter and Hughton.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Somewhat tedious though, don't you think?

The club wanted Potter.
The club had a narrow window to get him.
Mr Hughton probably had an insurmountable challenge to keep his job.
Mr Hughton fell short by just about every metric, with plenty of blame to spread around.
The club were prepared to spend many millions of pounds to get GPott.
The club got Mr Potter.



Drops mic.
Scratches goolies.
Exits stage left.

But to be fair Stat, you have taken the obvious approach, without actually addressing the cause of why we get to this point in the discussion....... which is why is there so much anti-Hughton sentiment, within NSC?

It feels like if/when we play well, instead of highlighting what has been achieved, the default position is...... this would never have happened under Hughton , which of course may well be true, but equally it served us well in the PL.

That is what is tedious to me.....

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

I think we were over-attacking in those games. We had a lot of possession in the opposition half, and then got done on the counter, over and over again, both Cardiff goals, the Burnley goals, most of Bournemouths. And as soon as we went behind we met brick walls erected by our relegation rivals.

There was a lack of confidence right through the club, which included CH losing some confidence in his style of play, that's my interpretatiin of what happened

Very good summary. It wasn't until Wolves that we re-established our defensive shape, and that was an ultra-defensive approach but necessary at the time.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

The reason I called you out was the digs at TB in previous posts. My personal belief is that he is the best owner in the PL if not the 92. Where do you rate him? Southampton - for example - are an accident waiting to happen in that regard. This is why I believe we are on the up and why the likes of Stoke will Improve sooner or later. Ownership and overall leadership are never given enough credit in football. You use language such as 'shoestring' and 'very likely to be relegated' both in post #380. These do not have anything like the nuance of your reply.

If you read back over my posts for months you will see that I have been constantly critical about how money dominates football - and that if you want to compete in a PL dominated by money you really need to be spending up to £100million a year - every year. Spending £50million you are doing little more than standing still. But the problem is deeper - you also have to significantly increase the salary budget. These days £100K a week is not a lot of money to pay a PL player. Last year Javier Hernandez was paid £7.28million by West Ham - that is more than the top five players at Brighton combined. The word 'shoestring' is a comparable term - and we are talking about £millions here. It really is quite sick when you compare it to how the DWP treat people who are too sick to work.

The same applies to owners - and I am talking here in general terms - pumping £250million into a club to pay £20Million+ on players and £3million a year in wages - while people struggle to put food on the table - that to me is obscene. I would be an ardent supporter of fan ownership in football - of teams being orientated towards providing the best for the fans, not for Sky and the other pay-per-view outlets - and of paying decent wages to players (while abolishing the transfer system as it stands). In fact I do not agree with a system of professional players (as it exists) at all - I think all players should have to do at least one day's work a week in the community outside of football. But that is just me - and I carry these views into how football operates today - I much preferred how football operated in the 1960s and 1970s when you had a different team winning the title most seasons - where shocks could occur in the cup competitions - where clubs from smaller countries could compete in Europe. Today's football is very artificial and the inequality has been grossly exasperated over the past 30 years.

And I would actually argue that my replies tend to be comprehensive, regularly backed up with evidence - and I think are quite balanced and nuanced - and I am sure that many will disagree with that summation.

Again, CH deserves immense credit for years 1-4. He has been 1 of the best managers in our history. Michael Vaughan wouldn't have been as successful wihout Nasser. That's how I feel about Potter and Hughton.

and this should really be the start and the end of all of these threads - instead of a constant rehash of stuff from months ago.

 

[Stat Brother]

But to be fair Stat, you have taken the obvious approach, without actually addressing the cause of why we get to this point in the discussion....... which is why is there so much anti-Hughton sentiment, within NSC?

It feels like if/when we play well, instead of highlighting what has been achieved, the default position is...... this would never have happened under Hughton , which of course may well be true, but equally it served us well in the PL.

That is what is tedious to me.....

I only see that from a few nimrods who refuse to 'give it up'.
They are then constantly fed by those nimrods opposite side.


In the main all I read is:-

'Love Hughton'.
'Love what he did'.
'Will always respect the man'.
'Understand the decision'.
'Happier now'.

I regret the word tedious (although it's very tedious) I wish I'd written:-

Somewhat redundant though, don't you think?

 

[dazzer6666]

If you read back over my posts for months you will die of boredom

Corrected for you

 

[London Irish]

Oh good, I was worried that you weren’t enjoying it at all

Oh I’m delighted to say I appear to have enjoyed Brighton’s Premier League era maybe slightly more than you

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

I only see that from a few nimrods who refuse to 'give it up'.
They are then constantly fed by those nimrods opposite side.


In the main all I read is:-

'Love Hughton'.
'Love what he did'.
'Will always respect the man'.
'Understand the decision'.
'Happier now'.

I regret the word tedious (although it's very tedious) I wish I'd written:-

Somewhat redundant though, don't you think?

No need to regret it, quite accurate.

If I'm honest, I regret getting into the tedious defence of Hughton again, when I'd made a mental note to not get drawn back in on this thread

However, I read a lot of........

'love Hughton......... but'.

The whole comparison thing as you say is completely pointless, one coach excels defensively, one offensively........

We're doing well, should be doing better and the progress is promising.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Corrected for you

Is anyone being forced to read them ?

 

[London Irish]

Very good summary. It wasn't until Wolves that we re-established our defensive shape, and that was an ultra-defensive approach but necessary at the time.

I can remember the point we won at Wolves was greeted on here like we had won a cup final

Fair enough, fans are loyal to the current manager of the time, that’s actually a very positive thing.

But once they’re gone, boy it’s almost like we are discussing a different person. Never mind Hughton, any one of our promotion managers Gus, Adams, McGhee, you are more likely to get a negative than a recognition of great achievement

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

I can remember the point we won at Wolves was greeted on here like we had won a cup final

Fair enough, fans are loyal to the current manager of the time, that’s actually a very positive thing.

But once they’re gone, boy it’s almost like we are discussing a different person. Never mind Hughton, any one of our promotion managers Gus, Adams, McGhee, you are more likely to get a negative than a recognition of great achievement

Yes, I find it peculiar in all honesty.

I loved Poyet, and would go as far as saying he remains my favourite manager after Mullery.
Adams was great, as was McGhee......

 

[dazzer6666]

Is anyone being forced to read them ?

No, but you said ‘if’.....

 

[Blue3]

CH should be lorded on here for what he did for this club.

TB as the owner has a plan for the next stage of the clubs development in a non sentimental way clearly GP was the target and as others have said there was a window to get GP.

I was a CH fan who saw his achievements in keeping us up year on year as the best we could expect.

GP has been a breath of fresh air and has changed our style to a far more entertaining one

 

[vagabond]

Jesus wept you Hughton boys are at this 24/7. Get over it. Move on FFS.

Hughton is a legend but his time had come. The fact no other PL clubs have come in for him speaks volumes. Think about that.

For me GP is the most exciting manager we’ve had since Poyet. And like everyone else here I’m sure, I genuinely enjoy going to our games again. What he’s done already is stunning tbh.

 

[drew]

If you read back over my posts for months you will see that I have been constantly critical about how money dominates football - and that if you want to compete in a PL dominated by money you really need to be spending up to £100million a year - every year. Spending £50million you are doing little more than standing still. But the problem is deeper - you also have to significantly increase the salary budget. These days £100K a week is not a lot of money to pay a PL player. Last year Javier Hernandez was paid £7.28million by West Ham - that is more than the top five players at Brighton combined. The word 'shoestring' is a comparable term - and we are talking about £millions here. It really is quite sick when you compare it to how the DWP treat people who are too sick to work.

The same applies to owners - and I am talking here in general terms - pumping £250million into a club to pay £20Million+ on players and £3million a year in wages - while people struggle to put food on the table - that to me is obscene. I would be an ardent supporter of fan ownership in football - of teams being orientated towards providing the best for the fans, not for Sky and the other pay-per-view outlets - and of paying decent wages to players (while abolishing the transfer system as it stands). In fact I do not agree with a system of professional players (as it exists) at all - I think all players should have to do at least one day's work a week in the community outside of football. But that is just me - and I carry these views into how football operates today - I much preferred how football operated in the 1960s and 1970s when you had a different team winning the title most seasons - where shocks could occur in the cup competitions - where clubs from smaller countries could compete in Europe. Today's football is very artificial and the inequality has been grossly exasperated over the past 30 years.

And I would actually argue that my replies tend to be comprehensive, regularly backed up with evidence - and I think are quite balanced and nuanced - and I am sure that many will disagree with that summation.


and this should really be the start and the end of all of these threads - instead of a constant rehash of stuff from months ago.

Would be interested to see where you got those figures from. According to the link below, our average wage last season was just under £47.2k per week or just shy of £2.5m per year. Javier Hernadez was, I believe, WHU highest paid player. So, three of our average players combined earned just slightly more than he did last year. He didn't earn more than our 5 highest paid players!

http://priceoffootball.com/brighton-2018-19-switch/

 

[perseus]

Yes if you ignore everything except numbers, like some do around here. Maybe you should play with a calculator instead of watching football.

For the record I'm in favour of the passing style of football.

It was the low block (= deep defence) that teams played at the Amex that collapsed Brighton's home form at the end of last season. It works too well. The disadvantage of the deep defence is the sheer weight of attacks against it, mean the rub of the green, mistakes, referee decisions and individual brilliance and skilful goals (architects and class finishers) to favour the attacking side statistically. It often needs swift counter attacking or long balls which has a low frequency of goals.

Possession based play from the back with smart passing is the best form of defensive tactic. It runs the risk of losing the ball in your own half with disastrous results. But ball possession avoids the statistical risks of deep defence. At best there are opportunities of attack at the risk of losing the ball. At other times it is rather slow at finding openings compared to the longer passing game.

PS: I was rather critical of both the rigid play and formations of CH, especially the use of two specialist wingers, when one winger I prefer (not none). I liked his selective pressing though, not sure it was done to the optimum efficiency?

 

[Weststander]

Would be interested to see where you got those figures from. According to the link below, our average wage last season was just under £47.2k per week or just shy of £2.5m per year. Javier Hernadez was, I believe, WHU highest paid player. So, three of our average players combined earned just slightly more than he did last year. He didn't earn more than our 5 highest paid players!

http://priceoffootball.com/brighton-2018-19-switch/

In chats with [MENTION=31]El Presidente[/MENTION] over the last 2 years, our highest paid players such as Dunk were likely to earn £40k to £50k a week.

Many others in the first team squad are on far less than that.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Jesus wept you Hughton boys are at this 24/7. Get over it. Move on FFS.

Hughton is a legend but his time had come. The fact no other PL clubs have come in for him speaks volumes. Think about that.

For me GP is the most exciting manager we’ve had since Poyet. And like everyone else here I’m sure, I genuinely enjoy going to our games again. What he’s done already is stunning tbh.

You lost me at Hughton boys.

This is precisely the problem.

We are the same club, we are not Hughton or Potter, so why the anti-Hughton sentiment....... ‘the fact no other club’.........

I find it quite bizarre


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

You lost me at Hughton boys.

This is precisely the problem.

We are the same club, we are not Hughton or Potter, so why the anti-Hughton sentiment....... ‘the fact no other club’.........

I find it quite bizarre


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The original post set the tone for this thread.

Calling Potter's new contract "Shocking" was devisive trolling in post #1.