[Albion] Which players aren’t good enough for the Graham Potter revolution?

[Stat Brother]

I see you decided to leave out my comment that his reflexes and change of direction were good to make exactly the same point yourself

I’d like a keeper that has good reflexes and makes a number of Hollywood save too, Maybe I’m just a bit entitled

Ryan absolutely needs some competition too although I did also say he was good enough for a lower PL side, which we currently are.

You edited that in when you saw the greatness of my reposte.

The club certainly won't be buying in competition it's invested far too much in yoof keepers.
I think we're stuck, heaven's to murgatroid, with one of the best goalies as #1 for a little while yet.

 

[blockhseagull]

I don’t think it’s a case of players ‘not being good enough’

It’s more a case of where to we need to improve to take the next step.

For me that’s in centre midfield and at LB.

 

[Marshy]

its obvious we are short of a top notch technical centre midfielder.

Drop for example Moutinho in our side and we would be transformed under Potter.

 

[vagabond]

Hopefully the OP will wake up disappointed with himself.

There is a point that is valid, in that anyone not up to the ball playing game (and able to change tactics) will eventually be eased out - see Shane Duffy. That doesn't mean they are bad players though. Victor Valdes in the Pep / Barca documentary "Take the Ball, Pass the Ball" says when they first started playing out from the back there were "world class" players at the club who just couldn't do it. You need a TYPE of player to play this way.

But I think the OP has simply got frustrated with the goals we gave away. Propper and Stephens were CM last night and your CMs are always likely to be first or second receivers. Liverpool know that and press. One poor touch or pass and they're in. That's their game. Potter could have chosen to play hoofball but, with the team relatively safe, he decided to give Liverpool a game. When it worked - our goal - it's beautiful. When it didn't - their first two goals - it looks awful. But it was what Potter was brought in for.

FWIW I think Stephens' days at the club are probably numbered as well. He's playing less and Bissouma seems to be the future. But that's not because he's "not good enough". He simply suits another style. Joining CH again may be a good shout.

Propper though has more plusses than minuses in Potterball. I can't think of a CM out there that we could afford who would be a better first / second receiver. Yes, there are mistakes but there are plenty of decent passes, interceptions and work rate as well.

The selection of Ryan is just laughable. One of the best distributors in the EPL and one of the reasons he was bought.

Not at all, stand by what I said.

Dale Stevens has been on the decline for a while and is not good enough for the way for Potter wants to play.

Davy does have the occasional good game. So I slightly understand that one being debatable, but he makes too many mistakes, isn’t comfortable playing quick passes which leads to mistakes and doesn’t score any goals.

Matty Ryan love the guy, is not a top tier keeper. Never makes a top drawer save, doesn’t inspire me with ball to feet.

3 players out of the entire squad. Hardly damning.

 

[vagabond]

I said exactly the same last night, we don’t often see a worldie from Ryan. I don’t mean to be heightist but anything hit with power into the corners he often can’t physically get to. His height does disadvantage him in these situations imo.

His ball control is excellent and overall I don’t have a problem with his passing, long clearances can be a bit hit and miss though. His reflex saves and change of direction is good too.

I really do think he is too small to be a top keeper but he is certainly good enough for a lower PL team, if we do want to be a top 10 team he really does need some stiff competition, which he doesn’t have.

Not getting into the Ryan passing debate as it’s nonsense IMO.

But, when was the last time Ryan made a save that you thought, “no way - how did he get near to that”?

He just doesn’t do it very often......

Not saying get rid, just don’t think he’s as good as many feel on here.

Thank you[emoji122]

 

[Dick Swiveller]

not at all, stand by what i said.

Dale stevens has been on the decline for a while and is not good enough for the way for potter wants to play.

Davy does have the occasional good game. So i slightly understand that one being debatable, but he makes too many mistakes, isn’t comfortable playing quick passes which leads to mistakes and doesn’t score any goals.

Matty ryan love the guy, is not a top tier keeper. Never makes a top drawer save, doesn’t inspire me with ball to feet.

3 players out of the entire squad. Hardly damning.

For the love of God, give the player you don't like the courtesy of spelling their name correctly.

Edit - make that players.

 

[A1X]

Both in contract next season....... Can you see many takers. ?

For Jahanbakhsh? Definitely. For Murray? Maybe not.

 

[Springal]

Personally I think one of Gross or Mooy need to go. Both are so slow and hinder us in attacks or fast breaks. Gross can play excellent balls or nice little touches but it showed yesterday when he was the further up the pitch, he has no legs to do anything and defenders easily got back to cover.

 

[Napper]

Deffo upgrde on Stephens / Proper. Neither are quite good enough.

How much did we pay for proper ? How many assists or goals has he got. Vastly over rated by some on here.

Agree Gross been good for us but think its time he went now.

Would keep Mooy

Biss looks decent and Alzate but think we need to spend big on a CF and CM

 

[boik]

its obvious we are short of a top notch technical centre midfielder.

Drop for example Moutinho in our side and we would be transformed under Potter.

I'm not sure we need someone quite like that, I think we're short of a bridcutt type, a pivot role if you like to play in front of the defence, break up play, take short passes and move it on. I think Yves could safely rampage then, and Mac and Davy have the attacking quality.

 

[Marshy]

I'm not sure we need someone quite like that, I think we're short of a bridcutt type, a pivot role if you like to play in front of the defence, break up play, take short passes and move it on. I think Yves could safely rampage then, and Mac and Davy have the attacking quality.

Have you literally not just described Moutinho ?

Could we get away with playing Biss and Alzate central when fit ?.... I think its a tad too lightweight.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

I'm not sure I can remember results let alone particular saves, but didn't he pull off a remarkable save away at Wolves just before lockdown where the ball took a deflection off Webster from Jimenez? Or was that less dramatic than I remember?

Tough to analyse a keeping through stats as defending is a unit of performance, but on goals conceded, he's up there or better than Pope, Dubravka, Pickford, and obviously way ahead of Krul, Ramsdale, Foster.

I actually think his handling is underrated, he catches a lot of shots and crosses, you don't see him flapping at or palming shots back into danger areas.

All that said, I am crap at rating keepers to be honest. I don't see Ryan make that many mistakes as I do other keepers. While you make the point about unbelievable saves, I also don't see that many of our goals and think he should have got that either.

He probably is at the right club with the right budget to be competing in the top flight in England. It's not a position I would be thinking about at this point, but healthy competition for that no.1 shirt is never a bad thing.

You see I differ with you on this.
Whilst not many outright howlers there are a number this season he’ll be disappointed with.

I really don’t want this to be a scapegoat discussion, because I’m not saying get rid or anything dramatic....

Most recent Utd home, the first was poor and he’ll know he should have got closer to the second (deflection or not), but harsh to hammer him on that one.

I can name a host of others as well but am not going down that road.

His handling is good, when he actually comes for anything - but he has a tendency not to, whether that’s because Dunk/Duffy and Webster are good I don’t know.

I don’t have a problem with his distribution.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

So he doesn't produce worldies.

Yet in most games, even last night, he produces worldie reflex close saves esp on the second or third attempt.

TBH I'd rather have a goalie that can stop a thunderbastard from 3 yards than one who can look Hollywood a couple of times a season.

But that’s mainly good positioning, which is important and arguably it is easier to spread yourself and be on top of the ball from 3 yards than 20.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

We had it with Cruel and Mumbai but decided Button and Steele were worthy replacements ( they aren't )

Agree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[boik]

Have you literally not just described Moutinho ?

Could we get away with playing Biss and Alzate central when fit ?.... I think its a tad too lightweight.

Possibly Moutinho sits deeper and tackles more than than I recall. If so we need him! I think Biss needs to be given freedom to get the best out of him. It's possible alzate might bulk up enough to play the holding role but not yet.

 

[Eric Youngs Contact Lense]

Gross, proper and Stepehens seem to be getting a lot of criticism - last night being quoted as evidence - Propper gave the ball away for the 1st goal, Stephens did so as well - against a team that is renowned for "setting traps" and creating those issues. And yet, following the first 7 mins we absolutely took it to the Champions.. in fact, unusually for GP, our substitutions did not impact the game in our favour - we were unable to maintain the pressure that the the team from 10 mins to 75/80 mins did when those players left the field.
The most glaring gap for us is the lack of pace at left full-back to allow us to break on that side - BDB has been consistent in so many games but the fluidity on that side, the ability to create over-loads with impact feels more of gap now that we see what Lamptey brings. I am still confused by lack of time for Bernardo in these games..

 

[Stat Brother]

But that’s mainly good positioning, which is important and arguably it is easier to spread yourself and be on top of the ball from 3 yards than 20.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It might be 'easier' blocking the first from point blank range, but the rebound and the rebounds rebound less so.

The thing is we watch this play out every single week.
We listen to commentators say:-

'Well the keeper had no chance there', as the ball is tw@tted in from 5 yards out.

But we don't say:-

'Ryan would have stopped that'.

So what if he can't get to a precision shot, that's one in ten games (being generous to you) and reliant on the defenders and midfielders not doing their job properly.



This is beginning to read like you would prefer Pickford in our goal.

Nobody can dive after a ball going 5 yards wide of the stanchion like Pickford can.

 

[Albion Dan]

No. The answers being given are for the question: who is good enough for an imaginary Potter revolution with an unlimited budget.
Most, if not all, of the players discussed are good enough for the Potter revolution based in reality.

No, the question at the top of this thread is definitely "Which players aren’t good enough for the Graham Potter revolution?"

 

[rippleman]

Propper? Get rid of Propper? Absolutely no way. He is quality. But he isn't a defensive midfielder and certainly not the kind of player you want to give the ball to on the edge of our box facing his own goal! Push him further forward to his natural position. Far too good to be thinking of clearing out.

Whilst Ryan's distribution is worrying sometimes, he is a quality keeper. Maybe needs a returning Walton or Sanchez to put pressure on his place. Button and Steele are no competition for the number 1 jersey.

So who goes?

Montoya - Lamptey so far in front of him now he is almost out of sight.
Murray - gawd bless 'im. He has done so well for us but his lack of mobility / pace means he won't be getting minutes with Potters style
Solly - sadly. Just fallen a bit short at PL level.
Ali J - would have liked to have seen him get another chance as he seemed to have clicked before lockdown but doesn't look as if Potter has a role for him
Andone - everyone deserves a second chance - except Andone apparently. Think he still has a lot to offer (if he regains full fitness) but Potter doesn't appear to want to manage him.
Izzy - I hope he recovers enough to play again but sadly it won't be with us. Such an exciting player to watch
Stephens - great for us in the Championship but getting on and his best days are behind him now. We have much better and he needs to go.

 

[METALMICKY]

Davy does have the occasional good game. So I slightly understand that one being debatable, but he makes too many mistakes, isn’t comfortable playing quick passes which leads to mistakes and doesn’t score any goals.

Matty Ryan love the guy, is not a top tier keeper. Never makes a top drawer save, doesn’t inspire me with ball to feet.

With regard to Propper that's pretty much how I see it. Flatters to deceive. The midfield is a concern in that we have no pace and nobody who can break up the play. They all those moments but we lack anyone with consistency.

Really not convinced there's huge issues with Ryan and we have other priorities. The only thing I will observe is that he does not look so confident generally.