[Albion] Fabian Hurzeler: IN or OUT

[GoingUp]

I mean, just when I'm ready to give up on Fab he pulls out a great win or two and you start believing again.

Then we have some dreadful games and I'm back to thinking he's out of his depth.

 

[Mr Banana]

Intrigued if you can describe his tactics today. First ten minutes especially.

Can’t help but FH said he thought we played well in the first half and controlled the game.

Wonder if Wieffer woke up knowing he was going to be right-back. If not, no doubt he was informed of and briefed on his role using the same clear, detailed and highly persuasive communication techniques we’ve all so enjoyed witnessing in the Unlocked vids.

 

[jcdenton08]

I mean, just when I'm ready to give up on Fab he pulls out a great win or two and you start believing again.

Then we have some dreadful games and I'm back to thinking he's out of his depth.

This is called being reactionary…

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

First time I’ve gone ‘out’.

We have been appalling since the international break.
He looks void of ideas. The players look lost and at times are literally all over the place.

Quite simply, today he looked out of his depth.

 

[Perkino]

With a squad that has lost two centre midfielders for the second summer in a row this was always likely to be a transitional season. If we can better last season's 11th it will be a success.

We have made some mistakes and look exposed in the centre especially when playing a high line. I wouldn't expect any rash decisions from the board and am looking forward to the comings and going of the summer break

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

Until we're as bad, or worse, than De Zerbi's second half of the season, then we can worry.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Genuinely why are you IN?

Because I think he deserves longer than a season, especially a season that has been hot by injuries and featured a load of new players to integrate. Because I think that, despite the poor performances, there have been enough positives to give him more time. Because I believe that TB/PB have looked at him and seen something about him and will be willing to give him time and resources to get the club to their target of being a regular top 10 PL club.

You don't get rid of players - especially ones that that young, inexperienced (at this level) and willing to learn - and I think the same rule should be applied to managers. Look at Palace under Glasner, he's been through dodgy periods and now they are having a good spell.

Hope that helps

 

[Right Back]

It’s not all on the manager. Did we start to believe the praise a bit too much on our recruitment. Did we bring in what we needed? Some of the Summer signings were good but did we strengthen enough where we needed it at the back?
I’m sure Gruda will be a great player. However, we didn’t need another young 10 with potential when we already had Enciso and Buonotte who couldn’t get a game.

 

[Weststander]

First time I’ve gone ‘out’.

We have been appalling since the international break.
He looks void of ideas. The players look lost and at times are literally all over the place.

Quite simply, today he looked out of his depth.

I thought the same second half Leicester. He remained seated, helpless.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Seriously, what are the options?

 

[portslade seagull]

FH needs to recoach the wingers to encourage them to actually attack ( March excepted ). They all seem to have lost their drive. As for Pedro he's gone. The players in my mind are not buying into the manager's tactics. Can see a clear out coming

 

[chickens]

And herein lies my problem with hiring a manager on potential rather than proven ability.

You have to give him this season, all of next season, and then see how he does in his third season. At which point he’s either good and has f***ed off higher up the food chain, or he’s not developed, and you’ve got thoroughly disillusioned players and supporters.

I love our model as applied to players, but if we’re applying that approach to our coaching staff and manager as well, then who’s developing them? And doesn’t that mean that we’ll only have coaching operating at upper-half Premier League level once they’ve been developed?

I’m firmly FH in for all of this season AND next. If he hasn’t found his way by season 3 then I’ll be all for binning him off. I have to give him that long, otherwise we’ve all wasted each other’s time.

For all we bleat on about our wonderful continuity planning, I believe FH was a coach that we were keeping an eye on for the future. I don’t believe we expected to appoint him at this stage, and I think we’re all aware that PB expected to be able to lure McKenna from Ipswich. We did not have a readymade plan B.

FH in, for all of this season and all of next. We took the decision to hire him, we owe him the time to develop. Let’s not make hiring managers on potential a habit though. It’s painful.

 

[ROSM]

Explain this to me: we are in a very similar league position to RDZ last season, albeit without Europe to contend with. We were penalty kicks away from a Wembley trip, and our injury problems are as bad or worse than last season.

Brentford are still below us in the table, with an established, popular manager, who has been there for a number of seasons and never made Europe. Their highest ever finish is 9th.

Whilst they have a lower wage bill, they have suffered 12 total injuries compared to our 22.

Why do people want the manager out, when ours is outperforming much more established media darlings?

I will put my head above the parapet. A manager has to make the best of what he has. The way he set up today playing a high line with Dunk, Pervis and Wieffer against a Brentford side that plays balls over the top and has fast forwards is either naive or arrogant.

 

[BluesRockDJ]

Injuries are an excuse, and a bloody good one.

Every club has injuries, the trouble with us is that we sign young players and immediately loan them out....ie not Premier League ready, why not give some of the U21 players a go, can't be any worse than what is being served at the moment ?

 

[Hamilton]

I’m of the belief, based on statistics, that ever since Potter our record against teams below us in the table, particularly those at the bottom of the table, is poor. This in my view is because we have struggled under three successive managers to play against a low block, and due to a consistent lack of pace in our back line are very susceptible to a counter attack.

When more ambitious teams come out and play, particularly top teams (or “big” teams which underestimate us) we have gotten some excellent results.

Our M.O is to turn up to the games against higher reputation teams, then struggle against lower ones.

If we were able to do both, we would be in a title challenge. But we aren’t able to, because our players aren’t as good as the top teams or consistent enough to do it week after week.

Like I said to someone before when they made this point, would you rather trade our wins against Manchester United, Manchester City, Arsenal, Spurs et al for wins against Leicester, Southampton, Ipswich?

Winning all the matches is for top teams, which we will likely never be, seeing as Manchester City are spending £222m in wages to attract the best, most consistent footballers and we are spending £56m.

That is hardly a big discovery though is it? Arguably we have been like that for the past three or four seasons. With that in mind, you’d expect us to hire a manager that can address that.

Maybe it’s a recruitment issue (wrong manager); maybe it’s ability (FH doesn’t have the answers). What’s at question is whether we feel confident that he has the tactical nous to do anything about this over the next season and what’s left of this.

I’m on the fence at the moment, but he isn’t filling me with confidence.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

Could some of the Hurzeler in fans try and explain to me, a Hurzeler out fan, why I should back him other than the nonsense injury excuse and first season guff? I’m talking tactically, on the pitch, what has he done this season that gives you faith defensively and going forward? Cos as a football tactics nerd myself, I don’t see anything.

I was Potter in and a massive fan all the time he was here cos I could see what he was doing on the pitch, we had a clear structure, we were solid, we had a plan and patterns of play that made sense and created chances. I loved De Zerbi at first, from the start you could see what he was doing, it was brilliant. He had to go in the end because he is a bit of a twat and became toxic, but tactically he was brilliant.

Other managers like Iraola I love and did when he was in Spain, because tactically he is brilliant again. Even when Bournemouth struggled at the start, you could see what he was building from pretty much their first game and it didn’t take him long to make his mark on the team at all.

We’re now nearly a full season into Hurzeler and I see nothing to cling onto for the future. The results we have had have generally been due to individual brilliance and if we hadn’t had Baleba this season, I dread to think where we would be. We have actually played well for a very small amount of time this season and not had one complete match other than away to an appalling Southampton. So please, enlighten this doubter about what Hurzeler is building on the pitch that means we should back him because I just see a talented squad of players badly coached at the moment.

 

[peterward]

Could some of the Hurzeler in fans try and explain to me, a Hurzeler out fan, why I should back him other than the nonsense injury excuse and first season guff? I’m talking tactically, on the pitch, what has he done this season that gives you faith defensively and going forward? Cos as a football tactics nerd myself, I don’t see anything.

I was Potter in and a massive fan all the time he was here cos I could see what he was doing on the pitch, we had a clear structure, we were solid, we had a plan and patterns of play that made sense and created chances. I loved De Zerbi at first, from the start you could see what he was doing, it was brilliant. He had to go in the end because he is a bit of a twat and became toxic, but tactically he was brilliant.

Other managers like Iraola I love and did when he was in Spain, because tactically he is brilliant again. Even when Bournemouth struggled at the start, you could see what he was building from pretty much their first game and it didn’t take him long to make his mark on the team at all.

We’re now nearly a full season into Hurzeler and I see nothing to cling onto for the future. The results we have had have generally been due to individual brilliance and if we hadn’t had Baleba this season, I dread to think where we would be. We have actually played well for a very small amount of time this season and not had one complete match other than away to an appalling Southampton. So please, enlighten this doubter about what Hurzeler is building on the pitch that means we should back him because I just a talented squad of players badly coached at the moment.

Im fence at the minute, but definitely concerned.

You make a well reasoned and objective argument.

Im not in anyway suggesting Russel Martin for us, but even he had a very clear style of play, albeit naive without the ability of players to play it at this level.

I saw our old player Keith Andrews on the sideline today, googled and see he's the set piece coach at Brentford. We havent had a proper one since Nick Stanley left last summer.

Why have we got a goalkeeper coach, Marco Knoop, who last season was GK coaching in the german second div, now doubling up as the defensive set piece coach of a PL club?

If FH does stay, this needs addressing imho. The cheap option isnt working

 

[Kosh]

Could some of the Hurzeler in fans try and explain to me, a Hurzeler out fan, why I should back him other than the nonsense injury excuse and first season guff? I’m talking tactically, on the pitch, what has he done this season that gives you faith defensively and going forward? Cos as a football tactics nerd myself, I don’t see anything.

I was Potter in and a massive fan all the time he was here cos I could see what he was doing on the pitch, we had a clear structure, we were solid, we had a plan and patterns of play that made sense and created chances. I loved De Zerbi at first, from the start you could see what he was doing, it was brilliant. He had to go in the end because he is a bit of a twat and became toxic, but tactically he was brilliant.

Other managers like Iraola I love and did when he was in Spain, because tactically he is brilliant again. Even when Bournemouth struggled at the start, you could see what he was building from pretty much their first game and it didn’t take him long to make his mark on the team at all.

We’re now nearly a full season into Hurzeler and I see nothing to cling onto for the future. The results we have had have generally been due to individual brilliance and if we hadn’t had Baleba this season, I dread to think where we would be. We have actually played well for a very small amount of time this season and not had one complete match other than away to an appalling Southampton. So please, enlighten this doubter about what Hurzeler is building on the pitch that means we should back him because I just a talented squad of players badly coached at the moment.

Top post, and mirrors my feelings and general concerns perfectly… there is simply no obvious pattern to our play, it’s chaotic … I’m guessing the idea being that were difficult to play against because we try to avoid being predictable… the problem is we’re then relying on players making decisions based on trying to do things differently, throughout the course of a match… if this worked I’d imagine it’d be awesome, and all conquering… when it fails to click, it looks like no one is on the same wavelength.. it looks a mess… it’s like trying to apply pinball dynamics to football strategy, too many variables… maybe I’m wrong but I think Fabs fancies himself a tactical revolutionary, but more often than not he’s looked like a PE teacher in a cap trying to win the local under 9s middle school cup employing tactics the kids simply can’t or aren’t willing to try to understand.

Or, he’s just a really shit coach.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I shall decide and vote after West Ham. A West Ham victory and Graham Potter going on the pitch at full time to applaud West Ham's supporters and blow kisses and bubbles, imaginary or otherwise, will influence my decision.

 

[chickens]

Could some of the Hurzeler in fans try and explain to me, a Hurzeler out fan, why I should back him other than the nonsense injury excuse and first season guff? I’m talking tactically, on the pitch, what has he done this season that gives you faith defensively and going forward? Cos as a football tactics nerd myself, I don’t see anything.

I was Potter in and a massive fan all the time he was here cos I could see what he was doing on the pitch, we had a clear structure, we were solid, we had a plan and patterns of play that made sense and created chances. I loved De Zerbi at first, from the start you could see what he was doing, it was brilliant. He had to go in the end because he is a bit of a twat and became toxic, but tactically he was brilliant.

Other managers like Iraola I love and did when he was in Spain, because tactically he is brilliant again. Even when Bournemouth struggled at the start, you could see what he was building from pretty much their first game and it didn’t take him long to make his mark on the team at all.

We’re now nearly a full season into Hurzeler and I see nothing to cling onto for the future. The results we have had have generally been due to individual brilliance and if we hadn’t had Baleba this season, I dread to think where we would be. We have actually played well for a very small amount of time this season and not had one complete match other than away to an appalling Southampton. So please, enlighten this doubter about what Hurzeler is building on the pitch that means we should back him because I just a talented squad of players badly coached at the moment.

I’ve put my thoughts down fully elsewhere in the thread, but we’ve hired a coach who we know is not the finished article.

Having done that, I believe that we (as a club) have a certain level of obligation (provided the coach is still at his post and giving his all) to give him the time and space to develop.

I don’t like hiring coaches on potential, and as I wrote elsewhere I personally believe we had our eye on FH for the longer term rather than him arriving when he did. However, he’s here, and given that’s the case, I try for patience and restraint while FH develops his ideas into something that can bring success in the Premier League.