[Football] Tactical Nerd Alert - Is building from the back dead?

[Bold Seagull]

agreed but they then do something with it. Liverpool are the best team in England and they are not afraid of route one at times, or just maybe some quick audacious passes to get up field quickly but it's interleaved into their build at the back not instead off.

But it comes with confidence. I’ve not a few teams have been like us this season; great run of results followed by a poor run, some because of Europe perhaps like Villa and Newcastle but also Brentford, Bournemouth, Fulham and us all have had spells - and it comes largely down to confidence, if the confidence is flowing through the team, then yes those runs, those passes, but as soon as that confidence drops off, especially if you miss some key players, then those micro seconds of pause or doubt are the fine margins between winning and losing at this level.

 

[Wardy's twin]

But it comes with confidence. I’ve not a few teams have been like us this season; great run of results followed by a poor run, some because of Europe perhaps like Villa and Newcastle but also Brentford, Bournemouth, Fulham and us all have had spells - and it comes largely down to confidence, if the confidence is flowing through the team, then yes those runs, those passes, but as soon as that confidence drops off, especially if you miss some key players, then those micro seconds of pause or doubt are the fine margins between winning and losing at this level.

Sure lack of confidence is not good and that is what we are seeing now as we string together poor results but doesn't explain going to pieces in certain games like Everton& Palace at home especially as the Everton defeat came after a week of wins...

 

[GJN1]

Anyone else find it mildly irritating how terms like 'double pivot' and 'low block' are not only fashionable but massively overused?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Anyone else find it mildly irritating how terms like 'double pivot' and 'low block' are not only fashionable but massively overused?

You forgot 'high press'

 

[Bold Seagull]

Sure lack of confidence is not good and that is what we are seeing now as we string together poor results but doesn't explain going to pieces in certain games like Everton& Palace at home especially as the Everton defeat came after a week of wins...

Didn’t think we fell to pieces home to Everton, silly handball by Veltman when Everton barely mustered a shot, then same old story of 16 shots and can’t find the back of the net.

Same with the Leicester result really, for 60mins should really have cruised to a 3 or 4 goal lead our play was that good, but finishing gremlins will haunt the best of teams.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You forgot 'high press'

Gegenpress was briefly in vogue as well.

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

I really hope so. Possession football v low blocks is so boring and the majority of games are set up like this. The best game of the season for me was our home game v Bournemouth (and I said that long before we got the winner). Both teams attacking each other to relentlessly. Great game and true entertainment rather than the bore fest that most games are now. It feels like we go long less than we did when we were winning games. May be due to personnel but we have had lots of success with long balls. Mitoma goal is a prime example.

We have undoubtedly played our most effective football this season when we’ve gone long and direct. Unsurprisingly, this is when we had Rutter on the pitch alongside one of Welbeck or Pedro. Without Rutter, the dynamics of our attacking play has somewhat fallen apart.

FH has a chance to try something completely new against West Ham. O’Riley seemingly wants to play as a 10 but isn’t going to win lots of physical battles, so we’re going to need a system that plays to his needs a bit more. Either that or one of our wingers is deployed closer to/off of Welbeck. It’s a chance for FH to show some innovation and maybe win over some of his critics that’s for sure…

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

I can't wait for 4 4 2 to come back. Proper WINGERS going round the OUTSIDE and two proper strikers.

Genuinely, I find the chess-style football BORING. I get why it's come in but it's not a great "product".

The other day there was a random PL game from around 2002 on sky. It was like watching a different sport. Keepers got it forward. Defenders wanted to get it into their midfielders asap. Those midfielders wanted to get it into the forward players as quick as possible. It was frantic and it was so great to watch.

Stats wise it would be torn to shreds. Continued losses of the ball etc but both teams simply wanted to think "how can we attack" not "what's the safest option".

A centre back waiting 23 seconds for an attacker to eventually close him down so he passes it just doesn't get my juices flowing.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I can't wait for 4 4 2 to come back. Proper WINGERS going round the OUTSIDE and two proper strikers.

Genuinely, I find the chess-style football BORING. I get why it's come in but it's not a great "product".

The other day there was a random PL game from around 2002 on sky. It was like watching a different sport. Keepers got it forward. Defenders wanted to get it into their midfielders asap. Those midfielders wanted to get it into the forward players as quick as possible. It was frantic and it was so great to watch.

Stats wise it would be torn to shreds. Continued losses of the ball etc but both teams simply wanted to think "how can we attack" not "what's the safest option".

A centre back waiting 23 seconds for an attacker to eventually close him down so he passes it just doesn't get my juices flowing.

I’m the opposite. I find 442 too predicable and formulaic . especially if the team has a few stand out players. I also guess most modern managers and players will be able to read this like a book and quickly mitigate such a formation.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Out of curiosity I looked at the amount passes made by teams last season compared to 2007ish. Now, the team who ranks 10th makes around 18k passes

That would have got you around 1st in 2007.

Boooooooring

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

I’m the opposite. I find 442 too predicable and formulaic . especially if the team has a few stand out players. I also guess most modern managers and players will be able to read this like a book and quickly mitigate such a formation.

It has scope though. You generally would have a pool of 4 strikers when 442 was a thing to mix things up. Arsenal would have had Henry (fast) , Wiltord (finisher), Bergkamp (drop into a 10) and Kanu (does what he wants) so your 2 up front could be looking for different things for what they see as service.

Then when you had 2 proper wingers it also led to wonderful pairings between full backs and wide players.

I can't put into words how much I miss strike partnerships. Brentford have to be applauded for sort of doing it with Mbuemo and Wissa. I watched inter the other night and they had Martinez and Thuram up top. Was a delight to see.

I watch a man city game now and it kills me. Get it out wide, cut back in, lay it back. Move it across to the other wing. Cut back in, lay it back etc.

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

We’ve played our worst football this season when FH has got us building from the back. If he can switch back to that counter style from the 6 games run we are cooking. Get the players winning second balls, its basic stuff, but the manager seems to have abandoned that.

Exactly what my thoughts are! I Cannot understand why he's done this.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Didn’t think we fell to pieces home to Everton, silly handball by Veltman when Everton barely mustered a shot, then same old story of 16 shots and can’t find the back of the net.

Same with the Leicester result really, for 60mins should really have cruised to a 3 or 4 goal lead our play was that good, but finishing gremlins will haunt the best of teams.

We might not have fallen to pieces but we were a different team for Everton than we were in previous 3 games it should have been a game where players were on top form mentally, maybe over confidence is the problem, the handball was a good example of too much black arts.