[News] A woman is a woman.

[WATFORD zero]

The immortal Malcolm Tucker once described a minister as being "So dense, light bends around him"

Helen Whately fits that description perfectly.

She's no Mad Nad, i'll give you

 

[BadFish]

The gender identity problem is never going to go away.

The reason for that is that both sides of the arguments have very valid points which conflict with each other.

I personally think our highest priority should be protecting women, so I think the supreme court has got this spot on.

Those that jump on this particular bandwagon in the guise of protecting women should be met with suspicion imho.

Banging on about the need to protect women in toilets and changing rooms rather misses the point that these are not the places in which women are in danger.

If our highest priority is protecting women, surely we would be discussing domestic violence, date rape, drink spiking etc etc etc .

For me if you are claiming to be protecting women and constantly banging on about trans people you ha E different agenda.

Having said that, after reading this thread I can see the benefits of this ruling.

 

[superseagull1994]

Well, I think as one of the few trans women on this board I should comment.

This will put members of my community in danger and it will cause harassment for gender non conforming women when they try to use the spaces they are legally entitled to use.

This will be the thin end of the wedge.

Didn't even take a f***ing day.

New rules for public bodies expected ‘by summer’ after UK gender ruling

Equalities watchdog chair says code of practice will give clarity and adds trans people’s rights ‘must be respected’

www.theguardian.com

 

[Curious Orange]

Didn't even take a f***ing day.

New rules for public bodies expected ‘by summer’ after UK gender ruling

Equalities watchdog chair says code of practice will give clarity and adds trans people’s rights ‘must be respected’

www.theguardian.com

Do you not think the new guidance will include advice on how to accommodate the specific needs of people who share your protected category?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Those that jump on this particular bandwagon in the guise of protecting women should be met with suspicion imho.

Banging on about the need to protect women in toilets and changing rooms rather misses the point that these are not the places in which women are in danger.

If our highest priority is protecting women, surely we would be discussing domestic violence, date rape, drink spiking etc etc etc .

For me if you are claiming to be protecting women and constantly banging on about trans people you ha E different agenda.

Having said that, after reading this thread I can see the benefits of this ruling.

But FeMail readers of Outrage imagine they are perfectly safe at home.
Perhaps some of them are.

Facts and Statistics - Refuge

Facts and Statistics - Refuge

refuge.org.uk

Fact: The police receive a domestic abuse-related call every 30 seconds.
Yet it is estimated that less than 24% of domestic abuse crime is reported to the police.

Fact: 1 in 4 women in England and Wales will experience domestic abuse in her lifetime.
Domestic abuse feels incredibly isolating, but the numbers tell a different story: you are not alone.

Fact: On average, one woman is killed by an abusive partner or ex every five days in England and Wales.
If you are afraid of your partner, Refuge is here to help you. Always call 999 in an emergency.

Fact: It takes, on average, 7 attempts before a woman is able to leave for good.
Leaving an abusive partner is a process, not a single act.

Fact: Domestic abuse is linked to depression and homelessness.
Women who experience domestic abuse are twice as likely to experience depression, and 40% of homeless women state domestic abuse as a contributory factor to their homelessness.

Fact: Domestic abuse can lead women to suicide.
It is estimated that around 3 women a week die by suicide as a result of domestic abuse.

Fact: 20% of children in the UK have lived with an adult perpetrating domestic abuse.
That’s 1 in 5 kids.

Fact: Young girls in the UK report high incidence of sexual violence.
41% of UK girls aged 14 to 17 in an intimate relationship experienced some form of sexual violence from their partner.

Fact: 93% of defendants in domestic abuse cases are male; 84% of victims are female.
And yet, women are three times more likely to be arrested for incidents of abuse.

Fact: Domestic abuse costs the UK an estimated £23 billion a year.
It is not only weighing on our physical and emotional health, but also our economy.

Fact: Domestic abuse can increase during pregnancy.
14% of Refuge’s service users reported being pregnant.

Edit. But that's OK because the perpetrators are proper men.

 

[ozzygull]

But FeMail readers of Outrage imagine they are perfectly safe at home.
Perhaps some of them are.

Facts and Statistics - Refuge

Facts and Statistics - Refuge

refuge.org.uk

Fact: The police receive a domestic abuse-related call every 30 seconds.
Yet it is estimated that less than 24% of domestic abuse crime is reported to the police.

Fact: 1 in 4 women in England and Wales will experience domestic abuse in her lifetime.
Domestic abuse feels incredibly isolating, but the numbers tell a different story: you are not alone.

Fact: On average, one woman is killed by an abusive partner or ex every five days in England and Wales.
If you are afraid of your partner, Refuge is here to help you. Always call 999 in an emergency.

Fact: It takes, on average, 7 attempts before a woman is able to leave for good.
Leaving an abusive partner is a process, not a single act.

Fact: Domestic abuse is linked to depression and homelessness.
Women who experience domestic abuse are twice as likely to experience depression, and 40% of homeless women state domestic abuse as a contributory factor to their homelessness.

Fact: Domestic abuse can lead women to suicide.
It is estimated that around 3 women a week die by suicide as a result of domestic abuse.

Fact: 20% of children in the UK have lived with an adult perpetrating domestic abuse.
That’s 1 in 5 kids.

Fact: Young girls in the UK report high incidence of sexual violence.
41% of UK girls aged 14 to 17 in an intimate relationship experienced some form of sexual violence from their partner.

Fact: 93% of defendants in domestic abuse cases are male; 84% of victims are female.
And yet, women are three times more likely to be arrested for incidents of abuse.

Fact: Domestic abuse costs the UK an estimated £23 billion a year.
It is not only weighing on our physical and emotional health, but also our economy.

Fact: Domestic abuse can increase during pregnancy.
14% of Refuge’s service users reported being pregnant.

Edit. But that's OK because the perpetrators are proper men.

can you imagine if the boot was on the other foot and men were on the receiving end. And any man moaning about it being called maninarchy, because they want it to stop. I am sick of opening the bbc front page and seeing another woman/girl being abused/ murdered.

these incels and Tate lovers say women are the dangerous ones, seriously you can’t make it up.

I don’t think transgender people are an issue, men are the issue, it is not all men, but its always men.

 

[GT49er]

Excellent point, well made.

And trains. Toilets out of order....

I spent 15 minutes wandering about on an express from Manchester or Leeds to London a few years ago (I forget the details) looking for a toilet.
I eventually had to relieve myself in a corridor.
It was that or in my trousers.

You should have taken a leaf out of Australians then. There's a reason Aussie commuters all stand rather than sit, I'm told - 'cause the night train users there piss on the seats rather than leave incriminating steaming pools of piss for which they might be held accountable.

 

[BadFish]

You should have taken a leaf out of Australians then. There's a reason Aussie commuters all stand rather than sit, I'm told - 'cause the night train users there piss on the seats rather than leave incriminating steaming pools of piss for which they might be held accountable.

I have lived here for nigh on 25 years and can confirm this is absolute bobbins


. . . . at least I have never noticed people preferring to stand, nor have I heard this being the reason.

 

[EliasTaproot]

can you imagine if the boot was on the other foot and men were on the receiving end. And any man moaning about it being called maninarchy, because they want it to stop. I am sick of opening the bbc front page and seeing another woman/girl being abused/ murdered.

these incels and Tate lovers say women are the dangerous ones, seriously you can’t make it up.

I don’t think transgender people are an issue, men are the issue, it is not all men, but its always men.

Ignore this, edited to remove original message, it's just not worth engaging with.

 

[Whoislloydy]

What about REALLY SMALL dangly bits? Am I, I mean would somebody, still be a bloke then?

Asking for a friend?

 

[carlzeiss]

Not really, I reckon people will still be sacked if they fail the respect aspect of their job requirements

So a convicted male pedophile serving time in a male prison threatens a nurse and subjects her to racist abuse(according to her) because she referred to him as a Mr X rather than his preferred Ms Mrs Miss or whatever pronouns and she should be sacked ?
Hey you could be right though , let's wait and see for the outcome . I got a hunch though that the trust might just back down .

 

[superseagull1994]

Do you not think the new guidance will include advice on how to accommodate the specific needs of people who share your protected category?

I don't doubt there will be something but how practical is it to tell everyone their business must have a 3rd space toilet if all they have is a gents and a womens and no real ability to install a thrid space. What are trans people to do then?

Also forgive me for not trusting the EHRC they have a bit of a history of transphobia under their current leadership. https://www.vice.com/en/article/equality-and-human-rights-commission-ehrc-uk-trans/ https://www.theguardian.com/society...-anti-trans-ehrc-to-lose-international-status https://www.vice.com/en/article/ehrc-trans-students-guidance-scrapped/

 

[fly high]

I don't doubt there will be something but how practical is it to tell everyone their business must have a 3rd space toilet if all they have is a gents and a womens and no real ability to install a thrid space. What are trans people to do then?

Also forgive me for not trusting the EHRC they have a bit of a history of transphobia under their current leadership. https://www.vice.com/en/article/equality-and-human-rights-commission-ehrc-uk-trans/ https://www.theguardian.com/society...-anti-trans-ehrc-to-lose-international-status https://www.vice.com/en/article/ehrc-trans-students-guidance-scrapped/

Most, probably all, public buildings already have a third toilet for disabled people, why not use that one? Although I don't see why toilets are a problem, changing rooms maybe but not toilets, just have to remember to put the seat back down.

 

[DJ NOBO]

Those that jump on this particular bandwagon in the guise of protecting women should be met with suspicion imho.

Banging on about the need to protect women in toilets and changing rooms rather misses the point that these are not the places in which women are in danger.

If our highest priority is protecting women, surely we would be discussing domestic violence, date rape, drink spiking etc etc etc .

For me if you are claiming to be protecting women and constantly banging on about trans people you ha E different agenda.

Having said that, after reading this thread I can see the benefits of this ruling.

You maybe right that the safety factor of what you refer to is overblown in some quarters.
But going by many interviews in the media this week and actual chats I’ve had with women, attacks in changing rooms are not the only concern women have about biological males having access to women-only spaces.

 

[PascalGroß Tips]

Most, probably all, public buildings already have a third toilet for disabled people, why not use that one? Although I don't see why toilets are a problem, changing rooms maybe but not toilets, just have to remember to put the seat back down.

The Connaught cinema in Worthing has a gender neutral toilet near the entrance - but it also has a sign saying separate gents and ladies toilets are also available. I have been in the gender neutral toilet and interestingly, there's a sign in the cubicles reminding us blokes to close the door behind us and not just leave it open and pee ... as we might do in a gents.

 

[superseagull1994]

Most, probably all, public buildings already have a third toilet for disabled people, why not use that one? Although I don't see why toilets are a problem, changing rooms maybe but not toilets, just have to remember to put the seat back down.

I personally don't feel comfortable using the disabled toilets but not every space has a disabled toilet, this will affect business as well some like my own employer don't have a disabled toilet. As an aside most trans women sit so no issues there we will keep the seat down.

 

[Curious Orange]

Thanks @superseagull1994 , that was an interesting read, April 2023 (the Vice article) seems such a long time ago now.

The two things I noticed in amongst the hyperbole was a concern that the Equality Act (2010) might be amended by Parliament to clarify that woman meant a biological one, as subsequently confirmed as the law by the recent Supreme Court case, and confirmed as the original intent of the Act by Harriet Harman; and that there was concern generally over how minors are treated, which given the subsequent release of the Cass Review in 2024 was probably valid.

I found the Vice articles (I followed a few links) a bit difficult to understand, simply because they mentioned transphobia on several occasions without ever really explaining the reasoning behind it, or as to why what they were reporting on was problematic. This just left me more confused than when I started.

 

[AstroSloth]

With or without...simple.

What if their chromosomes are the opposite?

Not so simple.

 

[AstroSloth]

This is just obfuscating to steer away from what is a simple concept. Because you don’t like that simple concept.
It is literally the tactics flat earthers use,

Lol no it's not at all.

My rational is backed up by peer scientific research and evidence. That's not at all the same as flat earthers.

Got any other straws to clutch at?

 

[Razzoo]

You maybe right that the safety factor of what you refer to is overblown in some quarters.
But going by many interviews in the media this week and actual chats I’ve had with women, attacks in changing rooms are not the only concern women have about biological males having access to women-only spaces.

Exactly, privacy is a must. Feeling comfortable is a must for women and girls.