[Albion] Fabian Hurzeler: IN or OUT

[Sarisbury Seagull]

I appreciate I might be coming across as the leader of the Fabian Hurzeler Appreciation Society, but it's really not that at all - I'm merely trying to present an alternative viewpoint to some of those being offered.

He may or may not be a good manager, he may or may not be the right manager for us right now, but if Mats Wieffer hadn't f***ed up *that* pass, If Igor hadn't tried *that* dribble, if our players were able to hit a cow's arse with a banjo at home to Southampton and Leicester we'd be sitting on the cusp of the Champions League places.

It would still be the same chaotic, lack of structure, no identity football that seems to be causing so much angst, but with a few less individual errors/bad decisions it would have us better placed than ever before.

And far fewer, possibly none, of these moans would be happening.

Fine, fine margins.

But by that logic, if Zirkzee hadn’t got in the way, if Harrison Reed had kept his head, if Newcastle could hit a cow’s arse with a banjo at home, if Bournemouth hadn’t had loads of injuries when we played them etc etc we’d be just outside the relegation places and the moans would be even louder.

It works both ways. It’s why personally I’d rather look at performances and the general trend of how we’re playing rather than just results. It’s why I always massively backed Potter and why I’m Hurzeler out.

 

[Forster's Armband]

After the 7-0 I specifically said to my Dad that I wanted FH gone but that I hoped upon hope that he'd prove me wrong...he did. I have now calmed the f**k down and I think there are a list of factors that have made his first season extremely hard. He clearly had a style at St Pauli, one that Bloom and Barber feel is a good fit. Funnily enough, there is an increasingly loud conversation about the change in style rearing it's head in football in general, a change from the possession-based era to direct, quick transition football. When we have played well, that's what we have done. I think that's FH's preferred style. He hasn't been able to fully implement it as it relies on connections on the pitch and quick defenders; the injuries have killed him. He's never moaned about this and still has us with a fighting chance of Europe. With a full pre-season a new RB and CB and a fit squad I am optimistic. Who else are we really going to get? I think O'Riely and Wieffer will be key next season with Baleba in Midfield and with Rutter back and firing as well as some others we have an extremely good squad.

 

[boik]

I see that recruitment was mentioned earlier. I think it's important to remember that we have to makes lots of money to be able to fulfill anyone's ambitions. We don't have 80,000 coming through the door every week, or millions of worldwide fans to buy shirts. We don't have, and cant realistically expect, millions each year from C/L participation.

The only way we can make enough money to compete is by buying players relatively cheap, and selling them later at maximum profit. People talk about buying P/L ready players, but there is little profit to be made there. That's the old Everton, WHU way, or Palace when they spunked millions on Benteke and that CB I can't remember. You can do it for a season or two, but it will catch up with you.

We are a financially small club compared to the behemoths above us, and that comes with limitations that F/H and everybody else has to deal with. Yes it's frustrating, but the long term alternative is worse.

 

[Forster's Armband]

I see that recruitment was mentioned earlier. I think it's important to remember that we have to makes lots of money to be able to fulfill anyone's ambitions. We don't have 80,000 coming through the door every week, or millions of worldwide fans to buy shirts. We don't have, and cant realistically expect, millions each year from C/L participation.

The only way we can make enough money to compete is by buying players relatively cheap, and selling them later at maximum profit. People talk about buying P/L ready players, but there is little profit to be made there. That's the old Everton, WHU way, or Palace when they spunked millions on Benteke and that CB I can't remember. You can do it for a season or two, but it will catch up with you.

We are a financially small club compared to the behemoths above us, and that comes with limitations that F/H and everybody else has to deal with. Yes it's frustrating, but the long term alternative is worse.

Spot on. I actually think the idea we go out and just buy prem ready players is total nonsense anyway. Look at waste of money West Ham have manged with that philosophy. Some on here were screaming for someone like Kalvin Phillips not long ago. He's been dreadful. We are what we are. When the squad. is fit it is very, very good.

 

[The Fits]

Your suggestion that your opinion is better because you have seen more games than Kalmatian Gull is the basis for a brilliant idea.

Let's accept the premise and acknowledge that your experience Trumps his.

With this acknowledgment, we should also accept that your opinion is trumped by those who see Fab on the training ground every day and then at every match on the weekend.

Do you agree?

Barber and certainly Bloom don’t see him on the training field anything like everyday. In fact the only people who do that beyond his staff are the players. And something clearly isn’t right there as confirmed by Welbeck.

 

[The Fits]

The scores on the board here have to be a concern. Clearly most active posters fit a certain demographic but I’m fairly certain the entire population of NSC is pretty reflective of BHAFC supporters more generally and clearly Saturdays atmosphere was unusually toxic for an away game.
There’s no smoke without fire and let’s not brexitise this- not everyone who wants him out is some frothing maniac, in fact most are probably both very pragmatic and loyal to the club.
It’s a worry that a manager who on paper was such an exciting appointment is already so divisive.

 

[Doug-ees-evil]

I see that recruitment was mentioned earlier. I think it's important to remember that we have to makes lots of money to be able to fulfill anyone's ambitions. We don't have 80,000 coming through the door every week, or millions of worldwide fans to buy shirts. We don't have, and cant realistically expect, millions each year from C/L participation.

The only way we can make enough money to compete is by buying players relatively cheap, and selling them later at maximum profit. People talk about buying P/L ready players, but there is little profit to be made there. That's the old Everton, WHU way, or Palace when they spunked millions on Benteke and that CB I can't remember. You can do it for a season or two, but it will catch up with you.

We are a financially small club compared to the behemoths above us, and that comes with limitations that F/H and everybody else has to deal with. Yes it's frustrating, but the long term alternative is worse.

I'm not sure any of the players we brought in the summer can be regarded as cheap? That's what troubled me most about our summer splurge.
Pretty sure only a few years ago we picked up both Trossard and Bissouma and still had change from £30M. We'd have to be selling (in a year or two), Rutter for £50M-60M and Minteh for £40-45M to get anywhere near those profit margins for example. (Which may happen but it's a challenge to see that right now).

 

[boik]

I'm not sure any of the players we brought in the summer can be regarded as cheap? That's what troubled me most about our summer splurge.
Pretty sure only a few years ago we picked up both Trossard and Bissouma and still had change from £30M. We'd have to be selling (in a year or two), Rutter for £50M-60M and Minteh for £40-45M to get anywhere near those profit margins for example. (Which may happen but it's a challenge to see that right now).

They're probably not the ones where maximum profit comes from, although the figures you quoted are not outrageously unachievable. There might be others in the pipeline, Yalcouye for example, or even Facu, Julio or Ayari should still make a very decent profit when the time comes.

 

[BadFish]

The scores on the board here have to be a concern. Clearly most active posters fit a certain demographic but I’m fairly certain the entire population of NSC is pretty reflective of BHAFC supporters more generally and clearly Saturdays atmosphere was unusually toxic for an away game.
There’s no smoke without fire and let’s not brexitise this- not everyone who wants him out is some frothing maniac, in fact most are probably both very pragmatic and loyal to the club.
It’s a worry that a manager who on paper was such an exciting appointment is already so divisive.

Unfortunately we appear to be a very divisive fan base. It seemed to start during Potters term with all those in/out polls. I am unconvinced that you can blame Hurzeler for this. Of course he will get the blame and the sack if the board deem it necessary.

Still, this appears to be the way of modern football. I expect other team's forums are the same. I am told it is the same on the Spurs forum, I expect the West Ham one is the same. Apparently the teams around are not the same which is rather embarrassing. But what are you going to do?

Well I suppose if we win a few of our run in games?

 

[ROSM]

Thats not what i said. I was explaining that my opinion was based on how we are out of possession as much as in possession.

Now, you can take that as being confrontational. Or you can take it as adding a bit of background.

its very interesting that the more aggressive and perhaps more insulting comments appear to come from some of the fab in camp on here.

Your suggestion that your opinion is better because you have seen more games than Kalmatian Gull is the basis for a brilliant idea.

Let's accept the premise and acknowledge that your experience Trumps his.

With this acknowledgment, we should also accept that your opinion is trumped by those who see Fab on the training ground every day and then at every match on the weekend.

Do you agree

 

[ROSM]

Haha! Not sure if the premise stands though, he said he had missed five games whereas I have watched every minute of every game, admittedly most from the safety of my couch at 2 in the morning with many beers inside me, but still!

The 5 i missed may have been watched from the comfort of my lounge....although 3 of them weren't on uk live tv at the time

 

[jackalbion]

Yes, many people have said that they 'can't see what Hurzeler' is trying to do. I suggest they just look harder. I have seen clear patterns of play, particularly during our recent run of good results when the team was largely unchanged and relatively unscathed by injuries. There are also many youtube videos of so-called experts dissecting it. The empty midfield is a thing, one dropping back into the back 3, the other joining the attack. It has worked. It also has not worked on many occasions. IF it CAN work long term at this level, it will be quite something. I would like to keep trying, its not as if we need to change to stave off relegation. NSC used to be a place to discuss tactics, now it is a place to say 'I don't like /can't understand his tactics, get rid'. Bit of a shame.

I get this, but why has he regressed to a style which has not worked previously, again? I get that we've got to give him time, but he keeps on making the same mistakes, and to me it doesn't look like we are learning.

EDIT: Great Post btw, lots of fair points there, I don't agree with all of it, but I see the merit of all the points.

 

[BadFish]

Thats not what i said. I was explaining that my opinion was based on how we are out of possession as much as in possession.

Now, you can take that as being confrontational. Or you can take it as adding a bit of background.

its very interesting that the more aggressive and perhaps more insulting comments appear to come from some of the fab in camp on here.

Apologies for misreading your tone.

 

[Oh_aye]

One of the things I struggle with with Fab is that he doesn't really have a track record that allows you to put this season in perspective. One of the reasons why I think he'll be safe as houses with TB is that he was hired purely on potential. One season of success. Might have been a lucky anomaly or the start of a high profile career. I don't see nearly enough data from one single season that shows a trajectory that that potential manifestly can't be reached. If he loses every single game from here on in, someone might make the argument that he's lost the dressing room or out of his depth or something, but the likelihood is, we'll finish mid table. An underwhelming season for me given the potential but in the wider scheme of things broadly acceptable. I think TB and PB would really need to see more evidence before doing anything.

If his caveats are; young, potential, learning, 1st year in UK, lots of new players, injuries etc, then we'd need a season where most of those aren't true to be clearer on where he's going.

Not my emotional response really (I personally struggle to take to him and whatever his style of football is) but how I think the club will and probably should look at it.

 

[jackalbion]

Agree. I'm going to be dramatic and say that a poor defeat against another woeful team will ultimately cost FH his job at the end of the season.

And I think that would be fair, if you really can not arrest this form against poor sides, then I'm struggling to see when he is going to. Anyway hopefully three points Saturday.

 

[jackalbion]

Yet that appears to be FH style, athletic players who can play at a high intensity for 90 minutes. The fact as you suggest, we don’t have them means we should adjust, we haven’t.

Must catch up soon, will PM you.

As I drift more towards out, I do notice this that a lot of the players don't seem to fit that mould. Is it FH who should be looking over his shoulder or someone else?

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

As I drift more towards out, I do notice this that a lot of the players don't seem to fit that mould. Is it FH who should be looking over his shoulder or someone else?

Probably the players if they can’t do what the coach is asking.

If what he is asking is correct (evidenced by our poor structure out of possession), is a different question.

 

[jackalbion]

100%. And maybe, just maybe, after a (first) full season in the Premier League and a full pre season, the chaotic element of the football might settle into something that we can all get behind, as a very young and up and coming Coach starts to find his feet and work out his squad and the league he is playing in properly. It regularly takes foreign players a season to adapt to the Premier League, and (usually) people accept this, so why can't it be the same with a Coach?

I've said all along I don't think making Europe is necessarily a good thing this season. Finishing 9th and going into next year with this squad and FH in charge with a full season under his belt and hopefully a fully fit squad come August is a really exciting prospect for me. But then I guess the fact that he isn't particularly charismatic doesn't bother me in the slightest, because I'm not such a sensitive Sally as some people.

I do think people who are being weird about him not being Charismatic need to get a grip quite frankly. There are plenty of reasons you can complain about his tactics and formations sensibly, rather than his no fist pumping thing. I do however think he does sometimes need to take a bit of responsibility off the players, for example at Forest. If the style of management is more nurturing with this young group creating a togetherness, he needs to maybe move more into the forefront.

 

[jackalbion]

Probably the players if they can’t do what the coach is asking.

If what he is asking is correct (evidenced by our poor structure out of possession), is a different question.

I was more referencing recruitment, I've mentioned it a few times this season (can't remember if it was on here, twitter or on a podcast) I've been pretty sceptical of whether we have made the right moves in the transfer window, or whether we've managed to build a functional squad.

 

[oldboyroy]

I'm not bothered about charisma whatsoever. Its improvement I want to see with him coaching a team of young players improving over the season. Its all well and good getting the injuries sorted and going again next season with a fully fit squad but the overriding thing here is the Premier league is going to be a lot tougher than it's been this season with City having a bad season and United Spurs being way down the table. The bottom 3 have been atrocious this season to. My feeling is that the Premier will be tougher to finish top half for us (let alone challenge for Europe. We have some great talent and I'm hoping Fab will get them reaching their potential. Nothing I've seen this season convinces me yet, that he can.