[Albion] Hurzelers tactics

[Weststander]

Yes but I think there was a systematic issue more than anything for us last season when you unpick it a bit more:

Marcel Hartel was FCSP’s top scorer in 2023/4 - 17 goals out of 33 games and 12 assists. (he left at the end of last season btw for another yet undisclosed, “unknown club“ )

St. Pauli Scoring Stats

Get the full St. Pauli stats for the 2024-25 season on ESPN (UK). Includes leaders in goals, assists, yellow and red cards, and longest streaks.

www.espn.co.uk

Joel Pedro also with similar goal scoring stats 20 goals (across all competitions) out of 40 games and 3 assists. BUT 10 of those were penalties (hence the low assist stats).

Marcel is an attacking midfielder so to me, that’s an indication of how Hürzeler’s system worked cf to De Zerbi’s last year - it suggests our goal scoring problems were generated deeper in attacking midfield than in the 18 yard box (despite some woeful tap in finishing) lending some validity to the thinking that losing McAllister impacted the double pivot in RDZ’s system at the base of the box where MacAllister was so often the key to providing the final pass to our forwards.

MacAllister wasn’t a prolific goal scorer (his conversion rate wasn’t great) despite creating great goal scoring opportunities scoring 10 goals in 2022/3 but again only 3 from open play. It was MacAllister’s counter-pressing skills that we missed and his link up play in CAM (as a #10). I think that’s was one of our main weak areas of attack last season..

Buonanotte is still needing more experience - he consistently improved at the beginning of last season, but like some of the other younger players, I suspect some of the toxic dressing room environment and De Zerbi’s hard drive for perfection may have been a little counter-productive in their development by mid season.

Without Lallana, Facu’s going to have to step up - he can’t let poor mental attitudes and confidence be a stumbling block any more - I have great hopes though that a much younger, less intimidating Coach, who is less positional-focussed (cf to one that demands a rigid adherence to player position off the ball) will suit both him and Ferguson and they’ll find some freedom on the field to spread their ‘natural’ wings a bit.

I love Pedro.

Plus hopefully a quality summer signing or two with goals in them.

 

[Mackenzie]

Has he signed yet

Not yet

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

I commented last week that I thought under FH, Baleba could be our break out player next season - I think you are judging him a little prematurely. He has a lot of potential but I agree it is an important role so it needs to fit. Baleba, if he doesn’t go out on loan, 2024/5 will be boom or bust for him probably.

FH is not wedded to a system like RDZ was - he will find an optimum role for each player where they are most comfortable - he’s much more flexible than RDZ.

No, what I said about Baleba is not judging him prematurely; it’s judging him on what we’ve seen so far in relation to the specific role Hurzeler uses which you were speaking about.

Baleba’s two main strengths are his ball-carrying and physical duels. Helpful in the role in that Hurzeler system yes, but you need a far more rounded player in there, IMO.

I’m sure it could be worked on in training, but like I said, he’s not a natural fit there.

 

[Machiavelli]

So Hurzeler prefers a 343 formation, but in practice he plays with a libero. Essentially in possession he likes his central defender to step into midfield as a libero and create a pivot. This allows the two central midfielders to push up and overload the top end of the pitch.

So with this in mind, could Van Hecke play this central defender/ libero role?

In his best performances this season he has looked good moving into midfield, although under De Zerbi this was normally when he was chasing his attacker man to man.

Yup. I think that what this means is that, all of a sudden, CB signings become more important this window, and that FH will make a decision as to who plays where once the personnel have been secured and he's had a good look at what each player can do in pre-season training and analysing past performances.

 

[scwiffy]

Great content on this thread guys thanks. Sounds like a decent succession on RDZ tactics, lots of build-up intricacy and transition based approach. With a nice added element of improve set plays. I like that there is flexibility and adaptability to the system too, something that is needed in the PL and something that RDZ struggled with.

As others have said Baleba, Webster and JPVH could all do the Libero role but I actually fancy Igor there, he is calm on the ball, good passing and has plenty of strength. Either way Its clear we'll need an extra CB in, the likelihood of Webster staying has significantly increased, I think we'll see Veltman thriving on one of the wider CB roles too and not return to the wing (assuming we transfer in much needed wingbacks)

As others have said Barco will be the biggest gainer in this system, Estupinuan too should now have the platform to reach the high standards he performed last season.

It'll be really interesting to see if Hurzeler sees things in our loan army too and can unlock some potential. Sarmiento, Ayari, Sima. Highly possible he can get the best back out of Ferguson as well

 

[Seagull58]

There's so much detail around his style. Is there any indication that he's got a plan to break down teams when they don't fall for the bait to press, I.e. just sit back and defend deep.

Lump it up to the big man and fight for the second ball, shirley?

 

[Seagull58]

Great content on this thread guys thanks. Sounds like a decent succession on RDZ tactics, lots of build-up intricacy and transition based approach. With a nice added element of improve set plays. I like that there is flexibility and adaptability to the system too, something that is needed in the PL and something that RDZ struggled with.

As others have said Baleba, Webster and JPVH could all do the Libero role but I actually fancy Igor there, he is calm on the ball, good passing and has plenty of strength. Either way Its clear we'll need an extra CB in, the likelihood of Webster staying has significantly increased, I think we'll see Veltman thriving on one of the wider CB roles too and not return to the wing (assuming we transfer in much needed wingbacks)

As others have said Barco will be the biggest gainer in this system, Estupinuan too should now have the platform to reach the high standards he performed last season.

It'll be really interesting to see if Hurzeler sees things in our loan army too and can unlock some potential. Sarmiento, Ayari, Sima. Highly possible he can get the best back out of Ferguson as well

I also like Igor in the libero role, if his first touch is good enough? He and Baleba have similar physicality and both can progress the ball but there are concerns about the close control of both when receiving under pressure.
If Bsleba improves that aspect of his game he could be immense for us this season.

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

Igor has a similar problem to Baleba in that he is extremely one-footed. As well as this, his turning circle is, let’s just say, poor. He has not got the profile to step into a #6 role.

Frankly, he should be on the bench if we want to get back in the top half or compete for Europe again.

 

[kevo]

but like some of the other younger players, I suspect some of the toxic dressing room environment and De Zerbi’s hard drive for perfection may have been a little counter-productive in their development by mid season.

Oh come on, is there really any evidence of that? What a load of tripe.

 

[B-right-on]

Oh come on, is there really any evidence of that? What a load of tripe.

Exactly this. Never ever any hint of that, just the opposite.

 

[B-right-on]

Yes but I think there was a systematic issue more than anything for us last season when you unpick it a bit more:

Marcel Hartel was FCSP’s top scorer in 2023/4 - 17 goals out of 33 games and 12 assists. (he left at the end of last season btw for another yet undisclosed, “unknown club“ )

St. Pauli Scoring Stats

Get the full St. Pauli stats for the 2024-25 season on ESPN (UK). Includes leaders in goals, assists, yellow and red cards, and longest streaks.

www.espn.co.uk

Joel Pedro also with similar goal scoring stats 20 goals (across all competitions) out of 40 games and 3 assists. BUT 10 of those were penalties (hence the low assist stats).

Marcel is an attacking midfielder so to me, that’s an indication of how Hürzeler’s system worked cf to De Zerbi’s last year - it suggests our goal scoring problems were generated deeper in attacking midfield than in the 18 yard box (despite some woeful tap in finishing) lending some validity to the thinking that losing McAllister impacted the double pivot in RDZ’s system at the base of the box where MacAllister was so often the key to providing the final pass to our forwards.

MacAllister wasn’t a prolific goal scorer (his conversion rate wasn’t great) despite creating great goal scoring opportunities scoring 10 goals in 2022/3 but again only 3 from open play. It was MacAllister’s counter-pressing skills that we missed and his link up play in CAM (as a #10). I think that’s was one of our main weak areas of attack last season..

Buonanotte is still needing more experience - he consistently improved at the beginning of last season, but like some of the other younger players, I suspect some of the toxic dressing room environment and De Zerbi’s hard drive for perfection may have been a little counter-productive in their development by mid season.

Without Lallana, Facu’s going to have to step up - he can’t let poor mental attitudes and confidence be a stumbling block any more - I have great hopes though that a much younger, less intimidating Coach, who is less positional-focussed (cf to one that demands a rigid adherence to player position off the ball) will suit both him and Ferguson and they’ll find some freedom on the field to spread their ‘natural’ wings a bit.

Top work Zeberdi. You're our official Hurzeball expert.

 

[Commander]

Oh come on, is there really any evidence of that? What a load of tripe.

NSC rewriting history. Happens every time in a situation like this.

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

Its worth looking at what he changed when he took over at St.Pauli to see what he did that turned their form around.

Hurzeler is quoted as saying, “We wanted more stability,” he says. “We’ve conceded too many goals that way in the past because we weren’t positioned very well when we had the ball, so that’s something we’ve really worked hard on — our rest defence.”

That is definitely something he can look at here at Brighton. Under De Zerbi we were far to vulnerable to a fast counter attack on transition. The Aston Villa and West Ham horror shows are a couple extreme examples.

This is our rest defence under De Zerbi, look how ridiculously high he had Dunk and Van Hecke, two centre backs that were hardly blessed with Micky van de Ven's pace.


Here is a graphic showing Hurzeler's rest defence at St Pauli, he too likes a high line, but not nearly as kamikaze as Roberto's.

In all his time as manager of St Pauli he only lost by a margin of more than one goal once. When Roberto loses he loses big, and not just against the the big teams, 4-0 West Ham, 6-1 Villa, 4-0 Luton, 3-0 Fulham, 3-0 Bournemouth.

Hurzeler made other changes, but this is the one he referenced first when asked, so it's logical to expect the same here.

 

[Zeberdi]

Its worth looking at what he changed when he took over at St.Pauli to see what he did that turned their form around.

Hurzeler is quoted as saying, “We wanted more stability,” he says. “We’ve conceded too many goals that way in the past because we weren’t positioned very well when we had the ball, so that’s something we’ve really worked hard on — our rest defence.”

That is definitely something he can look at here at Brighton. Under De Zerbi we were far to vulnerable to a fast counter attack on transition. The Aston Villa and West Ham horror shows are a couple extreme examples.

View attachment 184009

This is our rest defence under De Zerbi, look how ridiculously high he had Dunk and Van Hecke, two centre backs that were hardly blessed with Micky van de Ven's pace.


Here is a graphic showing Hurzeler's rest defence at St Pauli, he too likes a high line, but not nearly as kamikaze as Roberto's.


View attachment 184010
In all his time as manager of St Pauli he only lost by a margin of more than one goal once. When Roberto loses he loses big, and not just against the the big teams, 4-0 West Ham, 6-1 Villa, 4-0 Luton, 3-0 Fulham, 3-0 Bournemouth.

Hurzeler made other changes, but this is the one he referenced first when asked, so it's logical to expect the same here.

Agreed.

A point that is key to his better conceding stats and one of the all important tweaks to De Zerbi ball I mentioned on the very first page of the Hürzeler thread as being one of the two main areas he can improve our game .

In short, Hürzeler plays a lower counter-counter press than De Zerbi (but higher than Potter so retains the attacking force of RDZ) which makes his system less vulnerable to counter attacks by allowing the players to make a quicker transition into a defensive shape.

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

Agreed.

A point that is key to his better conceding stats and one of the all important tweaks to De Zerbi ball I mentioned on the very first page of the Hürzeler thread as being one of the two main areas he can improve our game .

In short, Hürzeler plays a lower counter-counter press than De Zerbi (but higher than Potter so retains the attacking force of RDZ) which makes his system less vulnerable to counter attacks by allowing the players to make a quicker transition into a defensive shape.

I do worry about our lack of pace at the back though.

 

[Ooh it’s a corner]

I do worry about our lack of pace at the back though.

Agree completely. A defender with pace is essential imo

 

[Hugo Rune]

I do worry about our lack of pace at the back though.

That will surely be solved in the window. I have no doubt at all.

Hürzeler played a left footed Libero at St Pauli. I wonder if we’re after one of those too?

However, sorting out the right wing back situation is the massive priority for me now. Pervis and Barco could be very, very strong on the left. We probably need a pair of new players for the right with Veltman probably dropping into the back 3 and Lamptey injured or sold.

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

Great content on this thread guys thanks. Sounds like a decent succession on RDZ tactics, lots of build-up intricacy and transition based approach. With a nice added element of improve set plays. I like that there is flexibility and adaptability to the system too, something that is needed in the PL and something that RDZ struggled with.

As others have said Baleba, Webster and JPVH could all do the Libero role but I actually fancy Igor there, he is calm on the ball, good passing and has plenty of strength. Either way Its clear we'll need an extra CB in, the likelihood of Webster staying has significantly increased, I think we'll see Veltman thriving on one of the wider CB roles too and not return to the wing (assuming we transfer in much needed wingbacks)

As others have said Barco will be the biggest gainer in this system, Estupinuan too should now have the platform to reach the high standards he performed last season.

It'll be really interesting to see if Hurzeler sees things in our loan army too and can unlock some potential. Sarmiento, Ayari, Sima. Highly possible he can get the best back out of Ferguson as well

Where do you see Hinshelwood fitting in the FH system?

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

Where do you see Hinshelwood fitting in the FH system?

He's perfect to play midfield in Hurzeler's system, he's good technically and scores goals.

 

[Zeberdi]

I do worry about our lack of pace at the back though.

With a lower press, I think our pace at the back won’t be as crucial as it was under RDZ - there will be less pressure imo - it is the pace of the wingback that will be essential to progress from the back 3.

Agree completely. A defender with pace is essential imo

Hürzeler used a system at St Pauli that doesn’t make it virtually impossible to make a timely transition into defending counter-attacks! He plays a lot more long passes to a forward receiver than RDZ too (especially against teams attacking high) which leaves more players behind the ball.

However, sorting out the right wing back situation is the massive priority for me now. Pervis and Barco could be very, very strong on the left. We probably need a pair of new players for the right with Veltman probably dropping into the back 3 and Lamptey injured or sold.

I’m very excited how Hinshelwood developed last season - Hürzler’s winger/MFwingback role suits Hinshelwood down to a T imo.