[Albion] Hurzelers tactics

[JetsetJimbo]

Oh come on, is there really any evidence of that? What a load of tripe.

The only "evidence" is the Joao Pedro interview, and that only works if you cut off the end of it appears he's making precisely the opposite point to the one he was in fact making.

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

Hürzeler used a system at St Pauli that doesn’t make it virtually impossible to make a timely transition into defending counter-attacks!

I admire your optimism, but Bundesliga 2 is a world away from the Premier League.

The best coaches armed with the best players will always find ways to hurt you and then it comes down to a battle of power and pace. We have the power but our pace is lacking.

Are you suggesting that Baleba is converted into an auxiliary 3rd central defender who would step out into the midfield libero role in a 523 / 343 system?

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

Even a team as good as Man City rely on pure pace at the back to save them at times.

 

[Zeberdi]

I admire your optimism, but Bundesliga 2 is a world away from the Premier League.

The best coaches armed with the best players will always find ways to hurt you and then it comes down to a battle of power and pace. We have the power but our pace is lacking.

Are you suggesting that Baleba is converted into an auxiliary 3rd central defender who would step out into the midfield libero role in a 523 / 343 system?

Hürzeler was recognised as playing the best tactical system in both Bundesliga. So on your first point - I would respond by saying until we have seen otherwise on the pitch, my optimism will remain.

As for pace - if FH plays a 3 man set up at the back and uses our RB and LB players as winger/wingbacks - speed down the left sided progression with be crucial. The pace in our CBs obviously needs to be fast too but IMHO that won’t be as critical as it was under RDZ.

I think Baleba could grow into a role that sees him playing the 3rd (central) defender - with further training - but if not, we have other options such as Igor or Van Hecke that could also grow into that role.

I am not going to get too fixated with the 3,4,3 set up - We don’t know what set up Hürzeler will use, perhaps we should wait and see what Hürzeler actually does with who is available.

 

[Coldeanseagull]

Well I was optimistic back in May that Hürzeler could improve upon what RDZ left us with. That optimism didn’t change (in fact it was justified) by subsequent positive contributions by other fans and sports reporters that he was on our shortlist and further affirmed when it transpired we were in negotiations with him.. So on your first point - I would respond by saying until we have seen otherwise on the pitch, my optimism will remain.

As for pace - as I noted above, the areas where IMO I think we do need to improve in the pace are, if FH plays a 3 man set up at the back and uses our RB and LB players as winger/wingbacks. The pace in our CBs obviously needs to be fast too but IMHO that won’t be as critical as it was under RDZ. When you have a system (FH) that plays a lower counter-pressing game such as we did under Potter (but a bit higher than Potter) but also plays less circulation of the ball at the back than we did under RDZ, the ground the CB’s need to cover to defend against counterattacks is less. FH still plays out from the back but the transitions come sooner.


As for your point about Baleba, yes - I think he could grow into a role that sees him playing a CDM that drops back into a CB when out of possession, with further training - we saw him (once?) in that role last season and people generally thought he handled it well - but if not, as has been said above, we have other options such as Igor or Van Hecke that could also grow into that role.

Also as I’ve said before, I am not going to get too fixated with the 3,4,3 set up - We literally don’t know what set up Hürzeler will use, it depends very much on what new players he has to work with by the end of the summer and what level of fitness our existing squad are at. He is not a coach that imposes a system onto a team, he builds a system with the team available - building “from the inside out” as Nagelsmann has done with BM.

Before deciding who or who will not have a role in the system next season, perhaps we should wait and see what Hürzeler actually does with who is available.

I'm not deciding anything, until the blokes actually joined us!

 

[Zeberdi]

I’m reposting this summary that was posted on the Hürzeler thread as it is a nice visual summary for those that don’t want to wade through a load of high end analysis and it is from the prospective of a St Pauli fan.

Allow me to add something here that may also help to tie some lose ends:

FABIAN HÜRZELER
Pronounced (using english words): "Far" - "Bee" - "An" / "Her" - "Cellar"
Former central midfielder playing for Bayerns reserves and youth national team, among other clubs. Started become a playing coach in a sub division in Bavaria, to then become a playing coach in Hamburg at Eimsbütteler TV (sparing you the pronounciation), where he met Loïc Fave who became assistant coach to Timo Schulz (club icon), who appointed Fabian to become another assistant coach for tactics etc. He led tactical training sessions. When Schulz and Fave got sacked, Fabian got a chance as the team loved working with him.
One of his known for catch phrases is: "Durchlaufen!" Which translates do "Follow through".
He is insisting his tactical demands are being followed.

WHAT CHANGED WHEN HE BECAME HEAD COACH
He did change the playing style from a 4-4-2 to a 3-4-3. Some more insights on his tactics and how it changed our results and to become one of the best playing teams in both divisions tactically:

Defending

• Compact defending 5-4-1, or 5-3-2
• Pressing mostly in own half
• Occasional pressing in opponents half depending on opponent, score and situation
• Constant pressing, when attacking and losing ball in opponents third - win ball back, create chances
• If defending in own half, its compact and leaves opponents usually limited options:
  
  
• As it can be seen in the image above, the back 5 are aligned well and consistently
• The zone defending in midfield is based on opponent but usually well kept and maintained to leave only few options. Mostly:
  - Long balls (which can be defended easily and regaining possession)
  - Ball out to one winger or defender (who can be pressed)
  - Ball back to their goalkeeper
• The style of defending is fair, but straight physical and smart
• Certain tips and tricks helped to defend better against set pieces like head positioning when heading out, small details he is paying a lot of attention to
• Fabian injected a desire to defend and not to concede goals - simple rule: Games are easier won, the less goals you concede
• Fewest goals conceded among other teams in 2nd Bundesliga but when we concede its mostly counter attacks, long distance shots, penalties, OR individual errors in the build up play which he is adamant about to keep (more about build up play, in Offense section)
• This is an example of how we conceded goals (mostly annoying but never had much of an impact overall on our season)
  
  

Does this make Fabians style a defensive one, that is boring to watch with limited offensive styles and tactics? NOPE, far from it.

Offense

• Due to the system change to 3-4-3, we re-introduced Left Attackers and Right Attackers (or wingers) back into our system
• Fabian scouted Elias Saad, who was only playing sub division football in Germany but instantly became important and vital (now national squad Tunisia)
• We also signed Oladapo Afolayan from Bolton, League One side and he also had an immediate impact
• So Fabian knows how to install young talented players with skills and he is forcing them to seek 1v1s and using their skills
• He also chose to bring Eric Smith, our defensive midfielder into the center defence and for him to open up the game, switch back into defensive midfield and looking to play long passes behind the defenses back, which he can do really precise and creatively
• As mentioned already, our build up play starts with the Goalie
• Usually the left inside defender and right inside defender become targets for him, while our central defender is moving up
• We have seen amazing and insane pass play from back to front, combinational football, we have never seen so precise and so well maintained at St.Pauli before. Never!
• The way of playing demands movement and creating spaces (everyone is active on the pitch), going distances, leaving positions to occupy the next logical one or even go up front. Example: Our left and right defenders, Treu and Saliakas, are going long distances, pushing the ball as well as leavig the outside to move into center half of the pitch, becoming an additional 8, or 10. Example:
  
  
• Our central midfielders Hartel (who left) and Irvine (god of football to us), leave the center and occupy the left and right side, in order to create more room in centre but also to add more options for attacking play. The heat maps of both indicate just that (right hand side on page):
  Hartel left: https://www.sofascore.com/de/spieler/marcel-hartel/790645
  Irvine right: https://www.sofascore.com/de/spieler/jackson-irvine/181581
• Our wingers Saad and Afolayan are first defenders but also vital in attacking, they occupy the sides but move in to leave space for the right and left defenders to push forward
• Now, funny but not funny, we actually never really had a notorious finishing striker with Fabian
• Eggestein is slow, technically not the best, but Fabian implemented his skills and his playing style nicely, making him leave his position to drop back, hold the ball and creating spaces for other players to dive into (Remember "Durchlaufen" ), like Hartel, Saad, Afolayan, Irvine. Eggestein was not successfull at scoring, but he made others be succesful at it, like Hartel. Eggestein was not considered by Schulz and was almost dropped from the squad.

All in all
We hate to see him go. He changed a team that was almost relegated, to become a force in defending and offensive play CONSISTANTLY. Considering that we have limited financial resources and also, players signed on long contracts that aren't actually top half 2nd division, he created a masterpiece. He can really improve players, create ideas and has a rock solid vision. He is a worker. Always working! Football and almost nothing else. And all while being humble up front. Is he always honest or really interested in the club? No. He wants to be successful and if he is with Brighton, and other high ranked teams are knocking on doors, he will most likely turn away from you, just as he did with us, after just announcing on the seasonal party, how much he loves the club and that we will rock the 1st Division. It's sad. But it's football.

I can only hope this helps, doesn't annoy you and that if he then signs – Dortmund is also looking for a new coach – that he will have the same impact on your success as he had for ours. I would love to see Brighton up top, knowing it was due to Hürzeler. And that he will remain your Head Coach for longer than just one successful season.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The perils of putting people on ignore. I had no idea we had appointed a new manager till I clicked on a new member's posts (a St Pauli fan) and found.....out. If someone on ignore starts a thread one does not get to see the thread.

 

[OzMike]

Considering what and who is available, I think we have done well in getting this guy.
Brighton are known for their risk taking signings, even the coaches.
Looking forward to the next chapter.

 

[dazzer6666]

….another comprehensive view of his approach

Fabian Hürzeler tactics and style of play - The Coaches' Voice

Expert analysis of the tactics used by Brighton-linked German coach Fabian Hürzeler to achieve Bundesliga promotion with St Pauli

www.coachesvoice.com

 

[Mancgull]

So it looks like a 343, with a central defender moving into midfield once possession moves forward.
Out of possession, a 541.
Barco and Pervis will be able to do the LWB job. On the right, Hinshelwood, Lamptey.
Wonder who will be the CB transitioning to midfield. Webster, Van Hecke?

 

[Baldseagull]

Looking forward to seeing how he sets up with us, and whether his St.Pauli tactics are changed much by the squad available.

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

So it looks like a 343, with a central defender moving into midfield once possession moves forward.
Out of possession, a 541.
Barco and Pervis will be able to do the LWB job. On the right, Hinshelwood, Lamptey.
Wonder who will be the CB transitioning to midfield. Webster, Van Hecke?

I wouldn’t feel comfortable with any of our current squad doing that hybrid cb/dm role. Not at this level of football.

Realistically I think we’d have to sign a very experienced dm who fits that profile.

 

[worthingweird]

So it looks like a 343, with a central defender moving into midfield once possession moves forward.
Out of possession, a 541.
Barco and Pervis will be able to do the LWB job. On the right, Hinshelwood, Lamptey.
Wonder who will be the CB transitioning to midfield. Webster, Van Hecke?

Sounds like a plan...

 

[kelvinnewman]

We won’t get him but Calafiori sounds like he’d be perfect on the libero role

 

[Flounce]

He’ll do for me if this is his preferred style


Bundesliga 2 expert Matthew Karagich said Brighton fans can expect a similar style of play under Hurzeler to what they saw under De Zerbi.
"We don't want to just beat you, we want to destroy - that resembles the way he reacts on the touchline. He is very passionate."

 

[Baldseagull]

I wouldn’t feel comfortable with any of our current squad doing that hybrid cb/dm role. Not at this level of football.

Realistically I think we’d have to sign a very experienced dm who fits that profile.

I think Dunk would be great at it, but maybe you would want him to stick at CB.

 

[dejavuatbtn]

I think Dunk would be great at it, but maybe you would want him to stick at CB.

I think someone with a bit more mobilit. Van Hecke perhaps but we have always hankered for a quality defensive midfielder since we lost the likes of Caceido and Bissouma. It’s not an easy position to fill with a youngster with potential and maybe the cheque book will need to be dusted off and the inkwell refilled.

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

I think Dunk would be great at it, but maybe you would want him to stick at CB.

Dunk’s passing is very good which would make him seem a good fit. Unfortunately in the PL, someone playing that role needs an exceptionally low centre of gravity to be able to spin 360 and pass or travel with the ball in any direction because the pressing intensity is so high. At this level it would require someone highly specialised in both physical and technical areas as well as being tactically mature. I think people are kidding themselves if they think we have anyone who fits that profile currently. It’s either a new signing, FH tweaks his system or spends the season developing Baleba there, which will require a lot of training and probably a sacrifice in short term results.

 

[JetsetJimbo]

Nobody fancies Baleba for that role? Might still be a bit raw, but RDZ's comment that Baleba plays better with the game happening in front of him rather than around him is ringing in my ears.

 

[HeaviestTed]

I like the talk of set pieces, would be good to get more than one goal from a corner a season