[Albion] Is FH really performing that badly?

[Brovion]

I'm not even sure what your problem is. I am FH out because I really don't like him. I even said it's a good job I don't get to make the decision.
Enjoy the rest of your day finding people to fight with.

Ignore it, NSC is often not a particularly welcome place for Newbies, especially those who dare to voice an opinion. (For some reason they always get accused of being Palace fans).

And I quite liked your self-depreciating comment (post #41) that fortunately you have no say in the matter!

 

[dazzer6666]

I had a similar discussion, some time ago, with a supporter who listed each game where we dropped points, didn’t perform, lost etc. If we’d won all the games they listed we’d have been top of the table with Liverpool breathing down our necks. Teams do drop points, it’s disappointing, but that’s football and it’s very much football for a team with a rookie manager and a bunch of new recruits with no EPL experience. As it is, we will finish with our second highest EPL points tally.

TL DR - wait until this time next year to judge him.

Always a daft argument to make…….what about all the games where we managed to squeak a late winner (and not always deserved) ? Swings and roundabouts

 

[BadFish]

No he's not and more than likely he'll be our manager next season.

It's going to be a long season on NSC if we have this many moaner when we are effectively sitting at par.

Imagine what will happen of we have an actual bad season.

I've never been an advocate for a separate forum but maybe one for the sack the manager crowd would be good.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Always a daft argument to make…….what about all the games where we managed to squeak a late winner (and not always deserved) ? Swings and roundabouts

Totally agree.

 

[BadFish]

I had a similar discussion, some time ago, with a supporter who listed each game where we dropped points, didn’t perform, lost etc. If we’d won all the games they listed we’d have been top of the table with Liverpool breathing down our necks. Teams do drop points, it’s disappointing, but that’s football and it’s very much football for a team with a rookie manager and a bunch of new recruits with no EPL experience. As it is, we will finish with our second highest EPL points tally.

TL DR - wait until this time next year to judge him.

Wait till next year is the best advise () at this stage.

There are simply too many factors that are affecting us this season.aonly new manager, new players, an unbalanced squad and injuries. With so many factors affecting our season it is hard to be sure one way or the other.

I will be stunned of those upstairs pulled the pin on this project and didn't give him another transfer window.

 

[Barham's tash]

I had a similar discussion, some time ago, with a supporter who listed each game where we dropped points, didn’t perform, lost etc. If we’d won all the games they listed we’d have been top of the table with Liverpool breathing down our necks. Teams do drop points, it’s disappointing, but that’s football and it’s very much football for a team with a rookie manager and a bunch of new recruits with no EPL experience. As it is, we will finish with our second highest EPL points tally.

TL DR - wait until this time next year to judge him.

Granted I’m not advocating we would have maintained all of those match winning positions but it really wouldn’t be a stretch to suggest at least 6 more points. Would you concede to that?

And for me that’s down to tactical naivety and in game management. Do you agree that sits ultimately with FH?

Look, I think it might appear I am some rabid FH hater, I’m not, but when I try to apply an analytical lens to this season I think he was given the tools, made some strange decisions on who to keep/loan out, done some baffling things tactically and not shown promise of developing some of our very talented squad (man management).

I just suspect TB may be thoroughly hacked off and might make a change post season review IF we don’t buck our ideas up for the last few games.

 

[Barham's tash]

I do not agree the current squad is the “most talented”. It’s not at the same level as the one Potter left and RDZ inherited, no way. By what metric are you measuring this? It’s a bigger squad, I’ll agree with this, but “most talented” it isn’t.

I would argue that sure Caiceido and of course MacAllister on aggregate are a superior midfield to Baleba and Ayari but that the attacking pool - if utilised to its fullest - is overall better.

The quality of the players increased at an aggregate level with better quality understudies. Therefore it is better.

You can flip your point about face and say don’t be dazzled by star quality and transfer fees of those that left as the driver for the overall quality.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I would argue that sure Caiceido and of course MacAllister on aggregate are a superior midfield to Baleba and Ayari but that the attacking pool - if utilised to its fullest - is overall better.

The quality of the players increased at an aggregate level with better quality understudies. Therefore it is better.

You can flip your point about face and say don’t be dazzled by star quality and transfer fees of those that left as the driver for the overall quality.

Quality maybe but not experience MacAllister spent his first year with us on loan.

 

[Barham's tash]

Quality maybe but not experience MacAllister spent his first year with us on loan.

Again I agree which is why I find sending Enciso out on loan and keeping Gruda odd. It should have been the other way round.

 

[dazzer6666]

Again I agree which is why I find sending Enciso out on loan and keeping Gruda odd. It should have been the other way round.

Not odd at all if Enciso made it clear he didn't see himself as a bench player and wanted more starts.

'Well mate if that's what you think you'll be going out on loan'

 

[Barham's tash]

Not odd at all if Enciso made it clear he didn't see himself as a bench player and wanted more starts.

'Well mate if that's what you think you'll be going out on loan'

Again is there not an argument about a manager's ability to convince him of his value and that it's a level playing field and that he'd get opportunities? I know I am swimming against the tide I just consider it odd as Gruda would have benefitted way more, as I believe would we.

I'm not entirely stubborn though, I do see your, and other's points on FH and Enciso but we just wont ever get a similar opportunity. This season was unique and we've literally dropped the ball to capitalise. Practically in our own net on occasion and it's so so so frustrating.

 

[Flounce]

Wait till next year is the best advise () at this stage.

There are simply too many factors that are affecting us this season.aonly new manager, new players, an unbalanced squad and injuries. With so many factors affecting our season it is hard to be sure one way or the other.

I will be stunned of those upstairs pulled the pin on this project and didn't give him another transfer window.

If we do give him another transfer window we should be bringing in players that suit his high line preference. Not convinced that the club take into account the players the manager wants over the type of players the club sees as investments. We need to sign older defenders with pace, leadership qualities and experience if FH is to have any chance of being successful consistently with the high line that is looking madness currently

I am struggling to see why we signed Cashin. Not that I am dissing him as no good, just that he doesn’t look to me like the type of defender that we should have signed for the way FH insists on playing 80% of the time.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

I'm not even sure what your problem is. I am FH out because I really don't like him. I even said it's a good job I don't get to make the decision.
Enjoy the rest of your day finding people to fight with.

Alright Roberto, you've had your fun. We get the message.

 

[Hamilton]

That's an incredibly simplistic way of looking at it - are you saying that by spending "£x" it will guarantee you an incremental higher league position?

Taking Chelsea as an example, if that calculation was 1 higher league position for every £50m spent, that means they should be walking the Premier League? Sadly it doesn't work like that and even though their massive investment has meant a higher league position this year, that has taken well over a season to work. Also don't forget they also didn't sell two World Class CM's that would walk into any Top 6 PL sides!

That is a good point about taking a season to bed the talent in, and I don’t think TB will fire FH this season.

Personally, I’m on the fence, but an insipid performance against West Ham could put me in the FAB CAB team despite your very good point.

Looking back, there are performances and points dropped that can be blamed on players and manager, but ultimately the buck stops with the boss. It’s not good enough not to learn lessons from playing teams that are supposedly inferior. That requires tactics from the top and the question we have to ask ourselves is whether FH has what it takes to make this squad better, because he isn’t going to get any more players signed in the summer.

The OP’s data shows that we have got worse in the second half of the season, and yes that could be down to injuries in the back line but we do have the players that should be strong enough to stop the goals going in.

Last season we scored 55 goals in 38 Premier League matches (1.45 per game). This season we have so far score 53 goals in 33 matches (1.61 per game), so we are doing better.

Some league context too. Premier League goals/90 have decreased to 2.99 (from 3.28 in 2023/24), so other teams are scoring fewer goals.

So my question to myself is, why are we not finishing off teams? What decisions are we making in games that’s leading to us not fulfilling our potential?

As I say, I’m on the fence and it’s a results business, but my faith is being tested. I worry that we have players with ability who are not being used as effectively as they might be.

Let’s hope he buries West Ham.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Granted I’m not advocating we would have maintained all of those match winning positions but it really wouldn’t be a stretch to suggest at least 6 more points. Would you concede to that?

And for me that’s down to tactical naivety and in game management. Do you agree that sits ultimately with FH?

Look, I think it might appear I am some rabid FH hater, I’m not, but when I try to apply an analytical lens to this season I think he was given the tools, made some strange decisions on who to keep/loan out, done some baffling things tactically and not shown promise of developing some of our very talented squad (man management).

I just suspect TB may be thoroughly hacked off and might make a change post season review IF we don’t buck our ideas up for the last few games.

For sure there has been some tactical naivety and crap in-game management. Some is down to FH but also some rests with the players, there has been some poor player decision making at times and this is not on FH. So no, I do not agree this sits ultimately with FH. I do feel FH is aware of his own mistakes though, he has publically owned a few, the key is can he learn? He has shown signs of this. He's also prepared to listen to the experience in the team.

My overall assessment comes down to a bunch of new, young and EPL inexperienced (or just plain inexperienced in some cases) players with an equally young and inexperienced manager finding their way together. A friend put it to me, FH is no different to the youngsters we bring with a view to developing and growing, Bloom and Barber are applying the same to the managerial position this time round. For all the injuries in very specific areas, for all the new faces, for all the inexperience (these latter two points are some of the tools you say he has been given.) we are still heading towards our second ever highest EPL points tally.......just imagine when this does click. Above all, I feel it is too early to pass judgment.

You said you might appear as a "rabid FH hater", by the same token I might appear as a FH apologist. i'm not, but I do naturally try and see the positive in people and situations....i am not sure if this is good or bad thing but this is how I go through life and is why I think the way I do about this season....I'd better do some work now

PS nice to have a pleasant discussion with you.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Granted I’m not advocating we would have maintained all of those match winning positions but it really wouldn’t be a stretch to suggest at least 6 more points. Would you concede to that?

And for me that’s down to tactical naivety and in game management. Do you agree that sits ultimately with FH?

Look, I think it might appear I am some rabid FH hater, I’m not, but when I try to apply an analytical lens to this season I think he was given the tools, made some strange decisions on who to keep/loan out, done some baffling things tactically and not shown promise of developing some of our very talented squad (man management).

I just suspect TB may be thoroughly hacked off and might make a change post season review IF we don’t buck our ideas up for the last few games.

I'd be incredibly surprised if Bloom sacks FH at the end of the season. We have an owner who has a track record of being patient with his coaches. We will finish mid-table, at worst, ( historically very good for the Albion) and Europe has been a realistic target for most of the season. Whilst it's now unlikely, it's still not impossible that we can still qualify. Bloom will also recognise FH is in his first season in the Premier League and is therefore still learning, and he, like the rest of us, will have seen that the squad has been decimated by injuries. The only ways Bloom might decide to pull the trigger is if he thinks FH has lost confidence of the players, especially the senior members of the squad, or if the majority of the crowd turns against him in our remaining games. That won't happen because most fans rightly think the time to judge FH is next, and not this season.

 

[Barham's tash]

I'd be incredibly surprised if Bloom sacks FH at the end of the season. We have an owner who has a track record of being patient with his coaches. We will finish mid-table, at worst, ( historically very good for the Albion) and Europe has been a realistic target for most of the season. Whilst it's now unlikely, it's still not impossible that we can still qualify. Bloom will also recognise FH is in his first season in the Premier League and is therefore still learning, and he, like the rest of us, will have seen that the squad has been decimated by injuries. The only ways Bloom might decide to pull the trigger is if he thinks FH has lost confidence of the players, especially the senior members of the squad, or if the majority of the crowd turns against him in our remaining games. That won't happen because most fans rightly think the time to judge FH is next, and not this season.

A fair and valid summary from your perspective. Good to have a sensible, if divisive, conversation about football without resorting to handbags!

Ultimately, I hope i'm wrong and we go on to win 4 of the next 5 and qualify for Europe (I would however like to see the football and tactics be less naive and ultimately more rewarding).

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Ultimately, I hope i'm wrong and we go on to win 4 of the next 5 and qualify for Europe

First glass of rose is on me!

 

[Reddleman]

We currently stand 4 points better off than we did at this point last season.

Which given the massive investment in the squad in the summer and given we haven’t had a European campaign to contend with is the absolute minimum it should be. Frankly four points is a pretty damning indictment on the managers performance.

 

[Balders]

I would argue that sure Caiceido and of course MacAllister on aggregate are a superior midfield to Baleba and Ayari but that the attacking pool - if utilised to its fullest - is overall better.

The quality of the players increased at an aggregate level with better quality understudies. Therefore it is better.

You can flip your point about face and say don’t be dazzled by star quality and transfer fees of those that left as the driver for the overall quality.

2 seasons ago when we had an issue at RB towards the end of the season, RDZ played either Pascal or Moises there, which still left two in CM of either MacAllister/Gross or MacAllister/Caicedo - are we saying that Jack or Matts are as talented to fill that void - I would argue not.

When RDZ had a full squad, he had a CM pairing of Moises/Pascal with MacAllister playing behind either Wellbeck or a firing, in form Ferguson. Granted we now have JP, but are we seriously saying our Midfield options are as talented or more talented now?

Our first choice wide players were Mitoma and a fit and firing Solly - not much has changed apart from a talent perspective, but one could argue that Minteh is a bit raw when comparing to Solly of two seasons ago.

We know the defence hasn't improved...... allegedly!