[Politics] Labour Party meltdown incoming.......

[A1X]

Not a great start to the day for the Starmtroopers.

• Under a train - Nasty Wes Streeting confirming more staff but no improved process and ultimately less money for hospitals.
• Jo Hamilton - Nothing has changed after meeting new minister statement on stage at the NTA's
• TATA Steel - £500m gift for only cutting half the jobs in Port Talbot
• Considering cutting the The Environmental Land Management Scheme by £100m
• Labour’s green policies are costing jobs and “hollowing out working class communities,” the leader of the GMB union has warned
• Early release prisoner immediately arrested for Rape, Sexual Assault and Racially aggravated assault.

Quite right. It’s outrageous that they’ve been in power for two months and haven’t sorted everything out yet.

 

[nevergoagain]

My intended point was to emphasise how many they'd had and why it made them an ineffective opposition full stop. You're completely right about Sunak of course but I'm not sure Jenrick or Badenoch are going to give them what they need. A lurch to the right where they'll be in direct competition with Reform. If Badenoch wins it'll be like Labour under Corbyn, only with an uber rude version who only opens her mouth to change feet and is, frankly, the wrong colour for many of their target audience.

There's a lot of 'aren't Labour awful' on this thread but the fact is there is zero credible alternative. Greens simply not popular enough. LDs with a decent enough manifesto but you can't put it through while abseiling at Centre Parcs. And then Tory / Reform chaos. That should worry everyone on NSC.

Pretty much the point of this thread? I agree about credible alternative though and that definitely is worrying no party should have a free ride. I don't like what the tories have become but neither do I like what labour are and always will be. The Tories need to sort their shit out as you quite rightly point out that the other parties just can't cut it. I do find it amusing (and why I started the thread) that those who shouted the loudest about the rotten tories and anything they did or said really don't like it when it's fired back at them. The beauty of NSC.

 

[RandyWanger]

Labour’s policies are deliberately hollowing out the working class

That's all you need to know

 

[WATFORD zero]

Starmer holding himself to higher standards ?

Well his predecessor Johnson in his equivalent first 10 weeks

Promised to get Brexit Done by 31st October and announced he 'would rather die in a ditch than delay Brexit past that date'
Had the Police investigate his awarding of £126,000 of public money to Jennifer Arcuri's companies
Lied to the Queen
Illegally prorogued Parliament
Wrote to the EU asking for an extension to Brexit past 31st October

So I think Starmer may be very slightly ahead in the standards he has set in his first 10 weeks

 

[Machiavelli]

I don't.

The Tories were a complete s**t show. Dreadful and deserved to be booted out.

I am hoping for far, far better from the LP, that's all.

I asked why you hold Labour to a higher standard than the Tories. You say:
-- I don't, and
-- I am hoping for far, far better from the LP
This would suggest that you do. Another way of putting it is that the only way this response is NOT a contradiction is that your hope is different to expectations. Or, I've got something wrong.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

I asked why you hold Labour to a higher standard than the Tories. You say:
-- I don't, and
-- I am hoping for far, far better from the LP
This would suggest that you do. Another way of putting it is that the only way this response is NOT a contradiction is that your hope is different to expectations. Or, I've got something wrong.

No it's not.

For example, I hold all Brighton managers to the same standard. Work your hardest and look after the club.

If Manager A gets Brighton relegated then sacked, wanting Manager B to achieve an improvement back to where we should be is not holding them to a higher standard. I held both at the same standard but manager A failed to deliver.

You don't drop your standards to meet the appalling performance produced by the tory government.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Labour's policies are “hollowing out working class communities,”

I'm not feeling hollowed out. Just saying.

 

[Machiavelli]

No it's not.

It's not a contradiction, I'm assuming you mean. If so, what's the premise that you'd put into it which prevents it from being so? (Is it for instance, the difference between hope and expectation that was acknowledged?)

For example, I hold all Brighton managers to the same standard. Work your hardest and look after the club.

If Manager A gets Brighton relegated then sacked, wanting Manager B to achieve an improvement back to where we should be is not holding them to a higher standard. I held both at the same standard but manager A failed to deliver.

Well, there will be other reasons that Brighton got relegated, and Manager A could well have worked their hardest and looked after the club and, despite that, Brighton got relegated eg, Burke in charge of recruitment, appalling injury situation, continually wrong officiating, etc

You don't drop your standards to meet the appalling performance produced by the tory government.

This would precisely be to hold Labour/the current government to higher standards than the Tories.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

No it's not.

For example, I hold all Brighton managers to the same standard. Work your hardest and look after the club.

If Manager A gets Brighton relegated then sacked, wanting Manager B to achieve an improvement back to where we should be is not holding them to a higher standard. I held both at the same standard but manager A failed to deliver.

You don't drop your standards to meet the appalling performance produced by the tory government.

I think the UK has much more comparable to Man Utd. Once brilliant, generally disliked, has been visibly on the slide for a while and despite multiple reboots of leadership has not really made any progress.

And this is the the crux. Whoever leads the nation has to grapple with the fact that we are in decline. This may or may not be anyone's fault, but we indisputably are. Global money is increasingly going to the global south or east or finding itself concentrated in the hands of untouchable billionaires and less and less is available to prop up our public services

We're we able to magic up the greatest and wisest leader in human history, all they would really be doing is managing Britain's decline as fairly and as pleasantly as they can possibly do

 

[Flounce]

I'm not feeling hollowed out. Just saying.

Has that Champagne gone a bit flat though, or have you switched to beer?

 

[Machiavelli]

I think the UK has much more comparable to Man Utd. Once brilliant, generally disliked, has been visibly on the slide for a while and despite multiple reboots of leadership has not really made any progress.

And this is the the crux. Whoever leads the nation has to grapple with the fact that we are in decline. This may or may not be anyone's fault, but we indisputably are. Global money is increasingly going to the global south or east or finding itself concentrated in the hands of untouchable billionaires and less and less is available to prop up our public services

We're we able to magic up the greatest and wisest leader in human history, all they would really be doing is managing Britain's decline as fairly and as pleasantly as they can possibly do

Spot on. Brexit was not the cause of the decline, it was the sign of it -- but also its accelerant. The UK entered 20C as the preeminent power, now it's the 6th or so largest economy, and its lost an empire too. Yet we still have to endure nonsense about how 'Great' Britain is, how 'Global' it is, and all the flag-shagging that has been a feature of the post-Brexit period. Unfortunately it's not the kind of thing that politicians and even the media like to share.

 

[keaton]

Quite right. It’s outrageous that they’ve been in power for two months and haven’t sorted everything out yet.

I know, I can't ever remember the Tories blaming a party that was in power 10-14 years ago for their problems. I definitely can't remember them at times blaming previous leadership from their own party while they were in the cabinet

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

But universality is cheap to administer and doesn't require "pensioners" to go begging for support. Should have left it and taxed it or listened to Martyn Lewis and made it available through Council Tax system. I think Labour are relying on the 800,000 currently entitled, but not claiming, to continue not claiming. If they all claim, nothing will be saved.

They’ve already said there has been a very big increase in applications for Pension Benefits, and I’m trusting enough to believe that this is what the Government actively want - to ensure that people who need the WFP are those who get it.

 

[Bozza]

They’ve already said there has been a very big increase in applications for Pension Benefits, and I’m trusting enough to believe that this is what the Government actively want - to ensure that people who need the WFP are those who get it.

They won't. Not by a long way. Successive governments have, for many years, tried to get people who are due Pension Credits to claim them and we're still in a position where close to 900,000 don't. I've explained why previously on tthis thread.

Martin Lewis was typically excellent on this on 5Live today. I just tried to find it to post here, but I found this instead - very similar. I very much encourage those who think this is all a fuss over nothing to invest a few minutes listening to him.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

I know, I can't ever remember the Tories blaming a party that was in power 10-14 years ago for their problems. I definitely can't remember them at times blaming previous leadership from their own party while they were in the cabinet

Are you ‘avin’ a larf! The Tories frequently even in recent months referred back to the mess that the previous Labour Government had left…… which was probably nowhere near as bad as what the Tories have just left.

 

[keaton]

Are you ‘avin’ a larf! The Tories frequently even in recent months referred back to the mess that the previous Labour Government had left…… which was probably nowhere near as bad as what the Tories have just left.

Sorry I thought my sarcasm was obvious

 

[WATFORD zero]

They won't. Not by a long way. Successive governments have, for many years, tried to get people who are due Pension Credits to claim them and we're still in a position where close to 900,000 don't. I've explained why previously on tthis thread.

Martin Lewis was typically excellent on this on 5Live today. I just tried to find it to post here, but I found this instead - very similar. I very much encourage those who think this is all a fuss over nothing to invest a few minutes listening to him.

His suggestion of Adding Council tax bands A-C is the best suggestion I've heard throughout all of this, another blunt instrument (or simple to administer) but using both together gives a far better solution

This is what should be done to address that significant number who are just above the current cut off line. I don't know how we put pressure on the Government to do this, but maybe Martin Lewis, being someone in the public eye, with very good media links can start a focused campaign, with his proposed solution ?

 

[A1X]

Starmer holding himself to higher standards ?

Well his predecessor Johnson in his equivalent first 10 weeks

Promised to get Brexit Done by 31st October and announced he 'would rather die in a ditch than delay Brexit past that date'
Had the Police investigate his awarding of £126,000 of public money to Jennifer Arcuri's companies
Lied to the Queen
Illegally prorogued Parliament
Wrote to the EU asking for an extension to Brexit past 31st October

So I think Starmer may be very slightly ahead in the standards he has set in his first 10 weeks

Yebbut Johnson didn’t irk a load of American keyboard warriors by locking up some rioters, so who’s the REAL villain here?

 

[Pevenseagull]

As a party member I am proud that Labour are making steps to, next year, possibly limit the advertising of junk food during the commercial breaks in Emmerdale and Coronation Street.


Think of the fat children.

xxx

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

They won't. Not by a long way. Successive governments have, for many years, tried to get people who are due Pension Credits to claim them and we're still in a position where close to 900,000 don't. I've explained why previously on tthis thread.

Martin Lewis was typically excellent on this on 5Live today. I just tried to find it to post here, but I found this instead - very similar. I very much encourage those who think this is all a fuss over nothing to invest a few minutes listening to him.

Over the last 5 weeks applications for pension credits have been double what they were in the previous 5 weeks.
that is, though, obviously just a drop in the ocean and I’m not trying to pretend that it will solve everything. I said that I trusted that “this is what the Government actively want”, not that it is what they will achieve. And to be fair I would trust that the previous gevernment would have @ctively wanted it too.