[News] Nigel Farage and Reform

[Beanstalk]

I am a citizen of the UK protecting our boarders

I'm guessing that you're not happy with the introduction of VAT to private schools then are you?

 

[El Presidente]

I am a citizen of the UK protecting our boarders

Wind or kite?

What are you protecting them from? Sharks, jellyfish or the shite that Southern Water pump out regularly?

 

[rogersix]

Johnson was as guilty of being to woke

could you explain what you mean when using the term woke?

 

[Baldseagull]

If you want me to understand that you need to unpack it a bit. A post of mine cannot transform into "total bollocks" without some explanation.

My advice was take note of the important things, not the irrelevant things.

A stopped clock is correct twice a day. Hitler was kind to children. Not everything Farage say is incorrect. None of these things allow an accurate assessment of the value of the clock, the fitness of Hitler to run Germany (or indeed breath God's clean air), or the insights and leadership qualities of 'our Nige'.

Edit: I can see how you my have read my post so I have edited it:

Focus on the bits about Farage that are not* correct and you will see the truer picture, folks.

FFS.

*To clarify, I mean the statements he makes that are not correct, not the statements made about him that are not correct.

I disagree that acknowledging any truths from the mouth of a populist is a bad thing to do.
I have found that if I only pick at the holes in someone's argument, or just call it bollocks, people who agree with that argument just see you as attacking their beliefs, and become more entrenched.
If I can find some truth I can agree with in someone's position, I have a better chance of getting someone to look at the rest with a more critical eye.
So as much as I dont want to see or hear Farage, or try to find agreement with anything he says, I think it's useful to know what those who do are getting fed, and try to soften it a bit by first finding something we can agree on, before pointing out the flaws.
It only matters if you hope to persuade people, rather than just score points, and probably pointless with a full on Flag Shagger, but worth a try now and then in my opinion.

TLDR: I disagreed with you in a way that I thought might get your back up, to try and make a point about the effect of not acknowledging any merit or understanding of your position.
I agree with where the focus should be, it's just how to get it there.

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

What are you talking about, why are you saying such a thing? I am a citizen of the UK protecting our boarders from the unknown faceless People that have entered our country without permission, this has nothing to do with being racist.

Please don't buy into the radical left version of anyone who say anything about the mass immigration is a racist, it just lies.

How were you feeling about Palace jumping our borders at the Amex illegally? Predominantly young faceless men in their hoodies.

It's no different.......oh but it is...we can identify these people because they're not truly faceless, they have real identities, they have passports and maybe known to the police.

98% of Channel boat migrants have no passport - Migration Watch UK Blog

Just 2% of the thousands who have made their way to the UK illegally in small boats via the English Channel were found to be in possession of a passport at the time of being processed in the UK. The finding emerged in the wake of official data being published in a Home Office freedom […]

www.migrationwatchuk.org

The facts are less than 2% have a passport, who the effing hell are the other 98%? Can you name them? What have they been up to in their countries? We don't know, no one knows, do you even care?

How many have crossed the water since Blair opened the gates, millions its is mental of the faceless million that jumped our turnstiles and continue to, as Cooper stands there wagging her finger at them.

Then their are our homeless and poor pensioners, left short, no cosy hotel for them.

Johnson was as guilty of being to woke to take on the ECHR on, Farage is the only hope for millions hence the way he smashed all new parties records at the GE, with 4 million votes.

Your working class people of Britain whatever your colour or religion know they can rely on him to get some common sense back in Britain.

No racist, no EDL member just a concerned Britain wanting the best for our kids and grandkids and their safe secure future.

I can see you now, protecting the coast, stomping up and down saying, "they don't like it up 'em!"

 

[Peteinblack]

You do a huge disservice to working class people by saying they side with Farage and Reform. Reform performed worse than Labour and the Tories with working class people.

Data shows the common trait among Reform voters is less about class but more that they are mostly male, over 50 years of age, and voted Leave in the referendum. A lot of them are doing well financially too. Funnily enough, it's almost the exact same demographic as those who voted Tory, because almost all Reform voters are also ex-Tory voters. As a result, just like the Tories they pick up very little of the vote among the under 50s across all demographics which gives an indication that the future direction the country will go in is the opposite to that which Reform want. Younger people are far too clued up and aspirational and patriotic to buy into the divisive nonsense of Farage and Patel and co. So that's good.

Spot-on.

The other characteristic about Reform UK voters is lack of formal education, which is linked to age. In the 1950s, only 3% of the population went to university, mainly because few jobs asked for a degree. Men were expected to leave school at 14 or 15 to work in a local factory or textile mill, in the docks, or down a coal mine. Women were expected to get a married asap and become housewives and mothers.

Much of this generation now have a strong anti-intellectual attitude, and hate students and experts. My dad was one of them: he actually said to me when I was choosing A levels in Lancing (Boundstone School): "I left school at 14 and got job, why can't you do the same instead of wasting 3 years at university reading poncey books and being taught by a bunch of lazy, long-haired, drug-taking, Left-wing layabout lecturers who couldn't get a proper job?" My reply was "Because I don't want to end being up a thick, semi-illiterate, small-minded, c*** like you." Reader, the beating and bruises I received for that retort were well worth it!

These are the people whose Facebook 'bio' is often 'School of Hard Knocks, University of Life', and who'll boast that "lack of education didn't do me no harm."

The other key point about the Reform UK supporters is their 'authoritarianism' and intolerance of 'difference'; they want freedom for themselves and their views, but not for other people's. This is not surprising - psychological studies have shown that citizens with minimal education, low incomes, who live in small towns or communities, and are older, are often 'authoritarian' towards those who are different, most obviously ethnic minorities, immigrants, LGBTQ+, students, and those on welfare. They don't like 'outsiders'. They also tend to think that Climate Change is a hoax, or at least exaggerated.

They want tough simplistic policies to tackle any social problem, not nuance, research, or deeper understanding. Crime? "lock 'em up and throw away the key; bring back hanging." Immigration? "Send them back." Welfare claimants? "stop their benefits and starve them into work." Students/young people? "Bring back National Service, bung 'em in the army." Environmental protestors blocking the road? "Run the f*ckers over."

Needless to say, they admire leaders like Nigel Farage and Donald Trump for "saying it as it is, and pissing off the Wokies."

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I disagree that acknowledging any truths from the mouth of a populist is a bad thing to do.
I have found that if I only pick at the holes in someone's argument, or just call it bollocks, people who agree with that argument just see you as attacking their beliefs, and become more entrenched.
If I can find some truth I can agree with in someone's position, I have a better chance of getting someone to look at the rest with a more critical eye.
So as much as I dont want to see or hear Farage, or try to find agreement with anything he says, I think it's useful to know what those who do are getting fed, and try to soften it a bit by first finding something we can agree on, before pointing out the flaws.
It only matters if you hope to persuade people, rather than just score points, and probably pointless with a full on Flag Shagger, but worth a try now and then in my opinion.

TLDR: I disagreed with you in a way that I thought might get your back up, to try and make a point about the effect of not acknowledging any merit or understanding of your position.
I agree with where the focus should be, it's just how to get it there.

Fair enough.

Personality I don't care that among Farage's narrative there are elements of fact.

I am also not interested in persuading those who feel sufficiently in tune with Farage to vote for him of....anything.

The first time I came across a Farage supporter was when I was skiing ten years ago. It became clear that his support for Farage was predicated by his prejudices (let's just call them his 'principles'):

He does not like foreigners bringing anything foreign to the UK
He sees Englishness as being white
He see's English culture as white
He is accepting of brown people who 'fit in'
But they can never be 'properly' English and it would be better if they left England
Homosexuality and perversion are indistinguishable and wrong.

And alongside that a range of other givens:

Deviation from the above is a perversion
Socialism is foreign and in favour of all the things he sees as bad.

I am not inclined to argue with any of that and was happy to let him chat about his vision.
There is no point arguing with people like that.

And there is no point seeking for the 'good' bits in Farage as a lever to examining the bad bits.
f*** Farage. And f*** his supporters. They have no excuse and are beyond hope or help.

 

[Wozza]

How many have crossed the water since Blair opened the gates, millions

MILLIONS?! By boat? No.

 

[Scappa]

I can see you now, protecting the coast, stomping up and down saying, "they don't like it up 'em!"

Itching to issue a parking ticket to the next boat that lands

 

[Jim in the West]

What are you talking about, why are you saying such a thing? I am a citizen of the UK protecting our boarders from the unknown faceless People that have entered our country without permission, this has nothing to do with being racist.

Please don't buy into the radical left version of anyone who say anything about the mass immigration is a racist, it just lies.

How were you feeling about Palace jumping our borders at the Amex illegally? Predominantly young faceless men in their hoodies.

It's no different.......oh but it is...we can identify these people because they're not truly faceless, they have real identities, they have passports and maybe known to the police.

98% of Channel boat migrants have no passport - Migration Watch UK Blog

Just 2% of the thousands who have made their way to the UK illegally in small boats via the English Channel were found to be in possession of a passport at the time of being processed in the UK. The finding emerged in the wake of official data being published in a Home Office freedom […]

www.migrationwatchuk.org

The facts are less than 2% have a passport, who the effing hell are the other 98%? Can you name them? What have they been up to in their countries? We don't know, no one knows, do you even care?

How many have crossed the water since Blair opened the gates, millions its is mental of the faceless million that jumped our turnstiles and continue to, as Cooper stands there wagging her finger at them.

Then their are our homeless and poor pensioners, left short, no cosy hotel for them.

Johnson was as guilty of being to woke to take on the ECHR on, Farage is the only hope for millions hence the way he smashed all new parties records at the GE, with 4 million votes.

Your working class people of Britain whatever your colour or religion know they can rely on him to get some common sense back in Britain.

No racist, no EDL member just a concerned Britain wanting the best for our kids and grandkids and their safe secure future.

I know I'm wasting my time here, but last year I spent 6 months volunteering with Care4Calais as a Legal Access Caseworker. The role was fundamentally about trying to find legal aid lawyers to assist with asylum applications. It was a bit of a nightmare, as there are very few lawyers who take on asylum applicants under the legal aid system (thanks to massive cuts in government funding for legal aid). But as part of my role I spent many hours on the phone to asylum-seekers. They were mainly Afghans, as I was allocated to the Farsi/Dari team (not that I speak Farsi - we used volunteer translators where asylum-seekers' English wasn't good enough).

Firstly, the hotels where asylum-seekers live are NOT cosy (and many live in much worse conditions in former army barracks, etc). Imagine living in a room in a Premier Inn for years on end with no knowledge of when you may be granted asylum, the possibility of being deported, a miniscule weekly allowance barely enough to buy a couple of coffees, crap food prepared by staff on the minimum wage, nothing to do (not being allowed to work or often even study in a formal setting). It's a living hell. Albeit a massive improvement on being persecuted by the Taliban.

Secondly, how do you think that an asylum-seeker should obtain a passport? Imagine yourself an Afghan who supported the previous regime (ie, before the 2021 Taliban take-over).....what do you think might happen if you tried to apply for a passport?!!! However, most (that I was dealing with) had some form of identification document. In addition, the Home Office forms require quite a lot of detail regarding the applicant's background, why they fled, which countries they travelled through, how they got to the UK, why they have come to the UK, etc, etc. So whilst YOU don't know much about an asylum-seeker, the government will know quite a bit. Of course, individuals may lie, but in my experience speaking with asylum-seekers on a daily basis, they were able to answer these sort of questions in a lot of detail. And of course ALL of them had faced unimaginable horror and danger just getting to the UK. These people are incredibly brave. And a lot of them (in my experience) are well educated - I spoke to doctors, engineers, teachers, etc who would be huge assets to the UK. The reason they come here is normally some sort of family connection, or knowledge of the language. They want to contribute to our society. Of course, not every asylum-seeker is a hero, but I'm convinced that if the majority of Brits (even some of the moronic brick-throwers) spent half an hour in the company of an average asylum-seeker, they would welcome them into our country.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Spot-on.

The other characteristic about Reform UK voters is lack of formal education, which is linked to age. In the 1950s, only 3% of the population went to university, mainly because few jobs asked for a degree. Men were expected to leave school at 14 or 15 to work in a local factory or textile mill, in the docks, or down a coal mine. Women were expected to get a married asap and become housewives and mothers.

Much of this generation now have a strong anti-intellectual attitude, and hate students and experts. My dad was one of them: he actually said to me when I was choosing A levels in Lancing (Boundstone School): "I left school at 14 and got job, why can't you do the same instead of wasting 3 years at university reading poncey books and being taught by a bunch of lazy, long-haired, drug-taking, Left-wing layabout lecturers who couldn't get a proper job?" My reply was "Because I don't want to end being up a thick, semi-illiterate, small-minded, c*** like you." Reader, the beating and bruises I received for that retort were well worth it!

These are the people whose Facebook 'bio' is often 'School of Hard Knocks, University of Life', and who'll boast that "lack of education didn't do me no harm."

The other key point about the Reform UK supporters is their 'authoritarianism' and intolerance of 'difference'; they want freedom for themselves and their views, but not for other people's. This is not surprising - psychological studies have shown that citizens with minimal education, low incomes, who live in small towns or communities, and are older, are often 'authoritarian' towards those who are different, most obviously ethnic minorities, immigrants, LGBTQ+, students, and those on welfare. They don't like 'outsiders'. They are also dismissive of Climate Change.

They want tough simplistic policies to tackle any social problem, not nuance, research, or deeper understanding. Crime? "lock 'em up and throw away the key; bring back hanging." Immigration? "Send them back." Welfare claimants? "stop their benefits and starve them into work." Students/young people? "Bring back National Service, bung 'em in the army." Environmental protestors blocking the road? "Run the f*ckers over."

Needless to say, they admire leaders like Nigel Farage and Donald Trump for "saying it as it is, and pissing off the Wokies."

Indeed. Well done you for standing up to the old man.

And, sorry and all that, dear liberals, THEY (the reactionaries) are the ones who have to change. It is not the responsibility of society to pander to these goons any more than it is the responsibility of society to pander to ultra conservative Islamists (Jihadis) or eco-fascists.

If they won't change they will have to stew in their own juices.

And if they want to raise illegal tropes to pursue their nonsense (I'll exempt the eco-fascists for this - their analysis is is not informed by illegal tropes, it is their solution that's wrong) then beware the laws. I expect to see a ramping up of prosecution for incitement over the next months and years. I have a feeling this was what Starmer was hinting at in his prezzer yesterday.

 

[Right Brain Ronnie]

A fake disability created to mock those of us who are open about our neurodiversity.

To many post for me to deal with today, other more important things to deal with.
But this post stood out as shockingly bad.

I am not faking nothing, you can't just go around suggesting a person whole has dyslexia and strong suspected ADHD is faking it. I have been ridiculously open about it so you need to check your facts on that, there are threads.

I will put you on ignore like I did with the others that insulted me on those threads, there is just no need for it.

 

[Eeyore]

Itching to issue a parking ticket to the next boat that lands

'Hello, I am new to NSC. I understand there is a Lady Seagull that can help me. I was on Dover beach and...'

 

[Wozza]

I am not faking nothing

Back to school for you.

You’re a weapons-grade, xenophobic tw*t, btw. (Feel free to put me on ignore)

 

[Jim in the West]

Spot-on.

The other characteristic about Reform UK voters is lack of formal education, which is linked to age. In the 1950s, only 3% of the population went to university, mainly because few jobs asked for a degree. Men were expected to leave school at 14 or 15 to work in a local factory or textile mill, in the docks, or down a coal mine. Women were expected to get a married asap and become housewives and mothers.

It's interesting that Reform advocate a massive scaling back of undergraduate numbers. The last thing they want is a more educated population.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I know I'm wasting my time here, but last year I spent 6 months volunteering with Care4Calais as a Legal Access Caseworker. The role was fundamentally about trying to find legal aid lawyers to assist with asylum applications. It was a bit of a nightmare, as there are very few lawyers who take on asylum applicants under the legal aid system (thanks to massive cuts in government funding for legal aid). But as part of my role I spent many hours on the phone to asylum-seekers. They were mainly Afghans, as I was allocated to the Farsi/Dari team (not that I speak Farsi - we used volunteer translators where asylum-seekers' English wasn't good enough).

Firstly, the hotels where asylum-seekers live are NOT cosy (and many live in much worse conditions in former army barracks, etc). Imagine living in a room in a Premier Inn for years on end with no knowledge of when you may be granted asylum, the possibility of being deported, a miniscule weekly allowance barely enough to buy a couple of coffees, crap food prepared by staff on the minimum wage, nothing to do (not being allowed to work or often even study in a formal setting). It's a living hell. Albeit a massive improvement on being persecuted by the Taliban.

Secondly, how do you think that an asylum-seeker should obtain a passport? Imagine yourself an Afghan who supported the previous regime (ie, before the 2021 Taliban take-over).....what do you think might happen if you tried to apply for a passport?!!! However, most (that I was dealing with) had some form of identification document. In addition, the Home Office forms require quite a lot of detail regarding the applicant's background, why they fled, which countries they travelled through, how they got to the UK, why they have come to the UK, etc, etc. So whilst YOU don't know much about an asylum-seeker, the government will know quite a bit. Of course, individuals may lie, but in my experience speaking with asylum-seekers on a daily basis, they were able to answer these sort of questions in a lot of detail. And of course ALL of them had faced unimaginable horror and danger just getting to the UK. These people are incredibly brave. And a lot of them (in my experience) are well educated - I spoke to doctors, engineers, teachers, etc who would be huge assets to the UK. The reason they come here is normally some sort of family connection, or knowledge of the language. They want to contribute to our society. Of course, not every asylum-seeker is a hero, but I'm convinced that if the majority of Brits (even some of the moronic brick-throwers) spent half an hour in the company of an average asylum-seeker, they would welcome them into our country.

Well said. A friend of mine, a nurse, used her annual leave, quite a few times, to volunteer with Care4Calais. She asked for donations of clothing, health products etc to take with her.

I get regular emails from the organisation updating me on the situation.

 

[Guinness Boy]

To many post for me to deal with today, other more important things to deal with.
But this post stood out as shockingly bad.

I am not faking nothing, you can't just go around suggesting a person whole has dyslexia and strong suspected ADHD is faking it. I have been ridiculously open about it so you need to check your facts on that, there are threads.

I will put you on ignore like I did with the others that insulted me on those threads, there is just no need for it.

Stop playing the victim.

 

[HalfaSeatOn]

No, mass illegal immigration has caused huge issues, there are plenty of other things that need fixing too. But Immigration is top of the

To many post for me to deal with today, other more important things to deal with.
But this post stood out as shockingly bad.

I am not faking nothing, you can't just go around suggesting a person whole has dyslexia and strong suspected ADHD is faking it. I have been ridiculously open about it so you need to check your facts on that, there are threads.

I will put you on ignore like I did with the others that insulted me on those threads, there is just no need for it.

You seem to be getting quite anxious and have an obsessive compulsion with immigration. Fake or real disability? Either way, just give yourself and others a break.

 

[mile oak]

Just realised the initials of Nigel link to a far right organisation from the far right from I believe the past (!), that said I thought the media attribute recent news of disruption to the English Defence League that I thought was also no longer in existence - have I missed something?

 

[Eric the meek]

A fake disability created to mock those of us who are open about our neurodiversity.

Throughout the tenure of @Right Brain Ronnie, a small part of me has wondered about that.

Surely, surely, someone could not / would not do such a despicable thing?

The name is the giveaway. He's not being self-deprecating. He chose that name to take the piss out of someone else.