[Politics] Donald Trump, US President

[Zeberdi]

No I wasn’t. I was alluding to the taking over of democracy by a totalitarian government.

It’s you that made the assumption I was drawing a comparison to the Holocaust. Which I wasn’t.

Godwin’s Law mate.

I had no doubts you were specifically saying the Trump administration were ‘as bad as the Nazis and more powerful’.

People associate the Nazi regime specifically with the Holocaust - which was your intention - to compare Trump with one of the most heinous periods in human history to underlie your hatred of Trump.

I already said I agreed in principle with why you felt that and also agreed there were singular comparisons which are appropriate but If you can’t see how your statement was hyperbole and inflammatory then we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

In the Senate, Cory Booker has been giving a protest speech on the damage being done by Trump et al.

He started at 7pm last night and has been speaking continuously for over 15 hours.

Which is impressive in its way - I start getting croaky if I have to talk for more than about 90 minutes. But other than delaying some Senate stuff, I’m not sure what he aims to achieve.

As per the Meat Puppets, “who needs action when you’ve got words?”

Still going. Over 16 hours now. Powerful statement.

 

[fly high]

Godwin’s Law mate.

I had no doubts you were specifically saying the Trump administration were ‘as bad as the Nazis and more powerful’.

People associate the Nazi regime specifically with the Holocaust - which was your intention - to compare Trump with one of the most heinous periods in human history. It was hyperbolic and inflammatory.

If you can’t see that then we will have to agree to disagree.

Probably better to compare Trump to Putin, seems to be the way he's headed.

 

[Zeberdi]

Probably better to compare Trump to Putin, seems to be the way he's headed.

Yep.

The real implication for Europe is Putin and Trump both see the world as a dichotomous landscape - vis a vis Russia v American spheres of influence and ownership. Bizarrely very much a return to cold war mentally despite Trump and Putin’s ‘fake bromance’.

To me, Trumpism is a new species of previously undefined political ideology- isolationist, populist, imperialistic, expansionist, both outward and inward looking and most of all lacking a coherent ideology but characterised by a form of political opportunism which is motivated by greed and self-aggrandising.

I am certainly on the same page with @Clamp about one thing, he is a danger both to the States and the world - I don’t think that can be overestimated enough.

 

[fly high]

Still going. Over 16 hours now. Powerful statement.

Is a single Republican supporting him? Bet not a single one.

 

[The Clamp]

Godwin’s Law mate.

I had no doubts you were specifically saying the Trump administration were ‘as bad as the Nazis and more powerful’.

People associate the Nazi regime specifically with the Holocaust - which was your intention - to compare Trump with one of the most heinous periods in human history to underlie your hatred of Trump.

I already said I agreed in principle with why you felt that and also agreed there were singular comparisons which are appropriate but If you can’t see how your statement was hyperbole and inflammatory then we will have to agree to disagree.

Okay. If you think you know my intent better than me, there’s not a lot left to discuss on that one.

I see the Nazis as more than the holocaust. The political prologue to their genocide has many parallels to the Trump administration.

But there we go.

Back to the main thrust of the thread.

 

[Norman Potting]

This just popped up on Spotify when having a random play. Great lyrics - suspect Tom Russell is not a fan of Trump

 

[A1X]

The price of entry into the USA..... $5m dollars... for a Gold Card.

#MAGA

No, that’s the upper tier of The Terrace

 

[Barryseagulls]

Okay. If you think you know my intent better than me, there’s not a lot left to discuss on that one.

I see the Nazis as more than the holocaust. The political prologue to their genocide has many parallels to the Trump administration.

But there we go.

Back to the main thrust of the thread.

Okay. If you think you know my intent better than me, there’s not a lot left to discuss on that one.

I see the Nazis as more than the holocaust. The political prologue to their genocide has many parallels to the Trump administration.

But there we go.

Back to the main thrust of the thread.

Trump is tough on illegal immigration which many Americans support but to say his policies have parallels to the Nazis is a bit silly to put it mildly.

 

[carlzeiss]

Godwin’s Law mate.

I had no doubts you were specifically saying the Trump administration were ‘as bad as the Nazis and more powerful’.

People associate the Nazi regime specifically with the Holocaust - which was your intention - to compare Trump with one of the most heinous periods in human history to underlie your hatred of Trump.

I already said I agreed in principle with why you felt that and also agreed there were singular comparisons which are appropriate but If you can’t see how your statement was hyperbole and inflammatory then we will have to agree to disagree.

The bar for or being denounced as a Nazi has changed considerably recently or so it seems . Just owning or driving a Tesla EV is sufficient now for some peeps

 

[chip]

Okay. If you think you know my intent better than me, there’s not a lot left to discuss on that one.

I see the Nazis as more than the holocaust. The political prologue to their genocide has many parallels to the Trump administration.

But there we go.

Back to the main thrust of the thread.

They turned on their allies too. That didn't work out so well for them in the end and we still see some fallout from that now in Eastern Europe. I agree with you, the Nazis where about more than genocide and comparisons with other extremist regimes are valid. Trump occupies the Hitler position in the Nazi Party much more than, say, a Stalin one in in the Communist Party. Both were genocidal lunatics but the Nazis relied on Hitler's leadership rather than organisational structures. That's how I understood your post and I'm sure others would. I'm sure most would agree that we hope they go the same way soon.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Trump is tough on illegal immigration which many Americans support but to say his policies have parallels to the Nazis is a bit silly to put it mildly.

Trump and his ICE thugs are grabbing people off of the streets, detaining them without trial for weeks, and deporting some, whether it’s deserved or not. An Venezuelan who had been granted asylum (therefore legal) has been shipped to El Salvador.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/ven...ed-el-salvador-final-order/story?id=120353709


There are comparisons to the blackshirts, the Stasi and the SS.

 

[Brian Munich]

Trump is tough on illegal immigration which many Americans support but to say his policies have parallels to the Nazis is a bit silly to put it mildly.

He said that the political prologue to the genocide has similarities to Trump, not the genocide itself. And he's right. Like Trump instigating Jan 6th, Hitler attempted to overthrow the Weimar Republic and was convicted and served jail time. Hitler also used his conviction to gain in popularity and claiming that the establishment was trying to silence him, just like Trump has done.

Wouldn't be surprised if Le Pen tried a similar tactic.

 

[Zeberdi]

. I agree with you, the Nazis where about more than genocide and comparisons with other extremist regimes are valid.

Sorry about the long post but this is something that has really bothered me lately when people on social media start using the Nazi Regime to press home political points about Trump.

Let’s be clear here.

America doesn’t (yet!) have an “extremist regime” anything close to a regime that systematically exterminated and killed 6 million of their own fcuking citizens in gas chambers.

NUANCE ALERT! - I also wasn’t saying comparative observations to elements of fascism is wrong or even saying Trump actually doesn’t exhibit some of the elements (and red flags of Hitler’s style of leadership). The expulsion of migrants from the US as @Thunder Bolt pointed out above is reminiscent of the Jews being stripped of the benefits of citizenship under the Nuremberg Laws. BUT it IS wrong to say America is “as bad as Nazi Germany”. While the treatment of undocumented migrants is inhumane and dispicable, Trump is NOT Hitler and asylum seekers and migrants are not being murdered in their millions.

Talking about Nazi Germany whilst implying the regime in most people’s minds is NOT retrospectively synonymous with the horror of the Holocaust is disingenuous and further trivialises one of the most inhuman and monstrous genocides in modern history.

If we want to just compare Trump talk with extremist leaders who are destroying the foundations of democratic systems of government then there are plenty of extremist leaders in the World today that make more apt and contemporaneous comparisons eg Netanyahu, Edrogan and Putin and any number of dictatorships in the African continent would serve as better examples of elected leaders who are dictatorial and extremist (some of whom, incidentally, are conducting genocide under our noses). Or if one wants to make comparisons in general with fascist leadership of the 1930s-40s, why not talk about Mussolini or Franco?

 

[Zeberdi]

He said that the political prologue to the genocide has similarities to Trump, not the genocide itself.

No he actually said

”They are as bad as the Nazis and more powerful”

See my post above.

He only later back tracked after I pulled him up on it and claimed it was nothing to do with holocaust history.

Even NOT mentioning genocide, but saying that ‘the Trump regime is as bad as the Nazis Regime and more powerful” is appropriating a part of history that most people will associate with and find synonymous with the genocide of millions and thus diminishes and trivialises the horrors of that period in human history

 

[The Clamp]

No he actually said

”They are as bad as the Nazis and more powerful”

See my post above.

He only later back tracked after I pulled him up on it and claimed it was nothing to do with holocaust history.

Even NOT mentioning genocide, but saying that ‘the Trump regime is as bad as the Nazis Regime and more powerful” is appropriating a part of history that most people will associate with and find synonymous with the genocide of millions and thus diminishes and trivialises the horrors of that period in human history

I didn’t back track at all. Stop making stuff up.

Your biggest fault is that you keep saying I am referring to the Holocaust. I’m not and I wasn’t.

You’ve made some valid points. I’ve made what I feel to be valid points.

I’ve clarified what I meant. If you can’t accept that..

Agree to disagree. Or not. I have said all I’m going to say on the matter.

 

[A1X]

He said that the political prologue to the genocide has similarities to Trump, not the genocide itself. And he's right. Like Trump instigating Jan 6th, Hitler attempted to overthrow the Weimar Republic and was convicted and served jail time. Hitler also used his conviction to gain in popularity and claiming that the establishment was trying to silence him, just like Trump has done.

Wouldn't be surprised if Le Pen tried a similar tactic.

Great timing

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Sorry about the long post but this is something that has really bothered me lately when people on social media start using the Nazi Regime to press home political points about Trump.

Let’s be clear here.

America doesn’t (yet!) have an “extremist regime” anything close to a regime that systematically exterminated and killed 6 million of their own fcuking citizens in gas chambers.

NUANCE ALERT! - I also wasn’t saying comparative observations to elements of fascism is wrong or even saying Trump actually doesn’t exhibit some of the elements (and red flags of Hitler’s style of leadership). The expulsion of migrants from the US as @Thunder Bolt pointed out above is reminiscent of the Jews being stripped of the benefits of citizenship under the Nuremberg Laws. BUT it IS wrong to say America is “as bad as Nazi Germany”. While the treatment of undocumented migrants is inhumane and dispicable, Trump is NOT Hitler and asylum seekers and migrants are not being murdered in their millions.

Talking about Nazi Germany whilst implying the regime in most people’s minds is NOT retrospectively synonymous with the horror of the Holocaust is disingenuous and further trivialises one of the most inhuman and monstrous genocides in modern history.

If we want to just compare Trump talk with extremist leaders who are destroying the foundations of democratic systems of government then there are plenty of extremist leaders in the World today that make more apt and contemporaneous comparisons eg Netanyahu, Edrogan and Putin and any number of dictatorships in the African continent would serve as better examples of elected leaders who are dictatorial and extremist (some of whom, incidentally, are conducting genocide under our noses). Or if one wants to make comparisons in general with fascist leadership of the 1930s-40s, why not talk about Mussolini or Franco?

I did make reference to other fascist methods by mentioning blackshirts and Stasi.

 

[Zeberdi]

Great timing

Lessons certainly to be had as I have made clear several times on this thread but no suggestion in that tweet that “the US as bad’ as the Nazi Regime.

As for democratically elected governments being “overthrown”, America has been complicit in overthrowing several of them - Chile, Guatemala, Argentina come to mind for example.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Still going. Over 16 hours now. Powerful statement.

Amazingly he's still going. Would like to think it's giving many Republican senators pause for thought