[Albion] Is FH really performing that badly?

[Barham's tash]

When RDZ had a full squad, he had a CM pairing of Moises/Pascal with MacAllister playing behind either Wellbeck or a firing, in form Ferguson. Granted we now have JP, but are we seriously saying our Midfield options are as talented or more talented now?

It's a fair challenge.

Let's break this down - current options on paper at least, not least on the treatment table are:

Baleba - better than Caiceido, certainly more versatile
Ayari - most similar to MacAllister/Gross but not as good. Has potential
O'Reilly - also most similar to MacAllister/Gross and not as good. I'd say approx. 80% as good - needs games
Wieffer - more of a classic DMC and therefore Caiceido like
Gomez - flair central and most similar to MacAllister with added spice.

I honestly think on balance of probabilities these are more versatile and better options overall.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Whilst I enjoy all these statistics being reeled out to support whatever side of the fence people sit on, it cannot be ignored that this season a significant amount of funds have been spent to upgrade the level of players in the club, compared to previous seasons.

That fact, along with what I see as rather insipid inspiration from our coach is my major concern for the near future.

But like previous seasons, most of those buys were for the future and not for this season.

We are well known for our succession planning, so when we lose a key player to someone like Chelsea for big money, there is someone to step up and take their place and perform well (those which we may be losing this summer for big bucks took time to integrate and reach the higher levels of performance just like previous stars did in seasons gone by, like Caicedo, Mac Allister, Ben White, etc...) - This seems to be getting forgotten, despite it being the same plan as previous years.

The difference this season has been that some saw the headline figure of £200m spent and somehow equated that to being enough to close the gap on and likely overtake far more established clubs challenging at the very top of the league and so therefore any less than that is a failure in their eyes. The issue is their unrealistic level of expectation that the total spent created in their own mind.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

At least some of what we spent was replacing players sold, so 200 million figure is misleading.

indeed

MacAllister/Caicedo/Groß

Should cost a lot more than £200m to replace those 3

No wonder we aren't satisfied with the results.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

It's a fair challenge.

Let's break this down - current options on paper at least, not least on the treatment table are:

Baleba - better than Caiceido, certainly more versatile
Ayari - most similar to MacAllister/Gross but not as good. Has potential
O'Reilly - also most similar to MacAllister/Gross and not as good. I'd say approx. 80% as good - needs games
Wieffer - more of a classic DMC and therefore Caiceido like
Gomez - flair central and most similar to MacAllister with added spice.

I honestly think on balance of probabilities these HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO BE more versatile and better options overall.

Amended for you.

We will be very lucky if all of the players end up being better than Groß/Mac/Caicedo

If they end up being 80% as good as those 3 we will have done well.

 

[jackanada]

The single biggest and most accurate indicator of performance is wage bill, not transfer fees.
Ours is sixth lowest.
Never being anywhere near the relegation zone constitutes success.
That's not too say FH shouldn't have done better, but it always seems odd to write off a manager as not good enough, particularly a young manager. Like players they can improve, they can make mistakes, they can have dips, take time to acclimatise.
Its Tony's decision obviously, but even if he doesn't feel Fab can step up it doesn't mean there's a clearly better manager we can get.
We're still a small club, our manager wages are also relatively low. Like with players sometimes we'll be first pick because we're a well run club that looks after people and gives them opportunities. So there's an intangible reputational cost to sacking him for a moderate season too.

 

[Flounce]

The single biggest and most accurate indicator of performance is wage bill, not transfer fees.
Ours is sixth lowest.
Never being anywhere near the relegation zone constitutes success.
That's not too say FH shouldn't have done better, but it always seems odd to write off a manager as not good enough, particularly a young manager. Like players they can improve, they can make mistakes, they can have dips, take time to acclimatise.
Its Tony's decision obviously, but even if he doesn't feel Fab can step up it doesn't mean there's a clearly better manager we can get.
We're still a small club, our manager wages are also relatively low. Like with players sometimes we'll be first pick because we're a well run club that looks after people and gives them opportunities. So there's an intangible reputational cost to sacking him for a moderate season too.

Even as an FH “unconvinced” as long as we don’t carry on imploding for the rest of the season we have had a better than moderate season. My frustration with his intransigence on tactics and slow learning is what makes me doubt him

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Even as an FH “unconvinced” as long as we don’t carry on imploding for the rest of the season we have had a better than moderate season. My frustration with his intransigence on tactics and slow learning is what makes me doubt him

I started doubting him after the Forest 7-0.
But after that, there was undeniably a change in tactics and results.

For some reason that defensive strength went out of the window with the Webster and Rutter injuries and we have reverted to the kamikaze approach

 

[Balders]

It's a fair challenge.

Let's break this down - current options on paper at least, not least on the treatment table are:

Baleba - better than Caiceido, certainly more versatile
Ayari - most similar to MacAllister/Gross but not as good. Has potential
O'Reilly - also most similar to MacAllister/Gross and not as good. I'd say approx. 80% as good - needs games
Wieffer - more of a classic DMC and therefore Caiceido like
Gomez - flair central and most similar to MacAllister with added spice.

I honestly think on balance of probabilities these are more versatile and better options overall.

So to summarise, you believe CURRENT (not potential) midfield options of Baleba/Ayari/O'Reilly/Wieffer/Gomez are more versatile and better options than Gross/MacAllister/Caicedo/Gilmour from two seasons ago.......

........am I reading that correctly?

 

[Flounce]

I started doubting him after the Forest 7-0.
But after that, there was undeniably a change in tactics and results.

For some reason that defensive strength went out of the window with the Webster and Rutter injuries and we have reverted to the kamikaze approach

Yep

 

[Barryseagulls]

Think the question should be - are the players really performing that badly.

Answer - No, but there are often very fine margins and the players need to maintain positivity & fighting for each other.

 

[Javeaseagull]

I keep seeing the assumption that this was an opportunity missed because Spurs and Man Utd have fallen so far. I struggle to see how they can immediately turn it around. They have enormous problems that will not be fixed overnight. Are we so in awe of these BIG clubs that they must come good? i can remember them both being relegated. They both have a lot of work to do to get back to where they want to be imo. I would sooner be in our shoes and so would fans of both clubs that I know personally. They constantly tell me!

 

[Mancgull]

I think we all probably know he's doing fine statistically and even points and position-wise for a first season and with injuries etc. I think perhaps the more important thread is the "have you enjoyed this season?" thread and this is where, on an emotional level I do struggle a bit and, at this present moment in time, I haven't seen anything that makes me look forward to next season if FH stays. But it's by no means impossible that we go on an incredible Forest-like run next season if the wind blows in the right direction making a lot of us look very stupid. In short, I suspect TB will look more at the stats and decide whether to stick or twi

Wait till next year is the best advise () at this stage.

There are simply too many factors that are affecting us this season.aonly new manager, new players, an unbalanced squad and injuries. With so many factors affecting our season it is hard to be sure one way or the other.

I will be stunned of those upstairs pulled the pin on this project and didn't give him another transfer window.

I am sure that TB will give him next season but apart from a new CB and maybe a couple of youngsters that go out on loan, I expect more outgoings than incomings.

We’ve had a well stocked squad this year but unfortunately more injuries to defenders where we have therefore suffered.

I would hope that an uplift in performance will come from a more settled side and the manager having learnt from this season.
I’m hopeful but not expectant on the latter point.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

For all the injuries in very specific areas, for all the new faces, for all the inexperience, we are still heading towards our second ever highest EPL points tally.

Joint second highest points tally now.

 

[BadFish]

He needed two wonder strikes to beat West Ham.

Papering over the cracks.

 

[BadFish]

Joint second highest points tally now.

Are you sure? I am reliably informed that Fab is clueless, the recruitment is f***ed and none of our players are any good.

 

[nicko31]

Young manager young squad, work in progress. Still chance of Europe

 

[Perfidious Albion]

Not that badly , just not good enough for those who want to look forward to booze ups in foreign parts next year. But we could, maybe , still do it. Have to wait and see.

 

[jezzer]

Anyone who thinks the manager should get the sack is a complete bellend!

In his first ever season with us in his first ever season in this league, being the youngest manager ever too, with the worst injury list of any team in the football league and to really key players, some people think that because we aren't gonna get a top six or seven finish he should go, it's madness. Yesterday, he had no van hecke, no igor, no Webster (you know, that brilliant defender that the same dickheads wanted to get rid!) no Pedro (who is either an idiot or he got himself deliberately sent off cos he's been tapped up or he wants to go) and yet we were fully in the game yesterday despite running on fumes with the squad and who had the idea to switch minteh to left wing, and mitoma centre that got us the equaliser and back into the game, several times this season we've been behind and he's changed things for us to go on and win the game, yes he's not perfect and plays too high a line at times but to talk about sacking him is idiotic. Until he has a season where the injury list is not ridiculous then you can't judge him especially when he needs time to learn within the job. This idea that players or managers are either brilliant or shit at any given time and if they're shit we've got to get rid is nonsense.

 

[brighton_tom]

Anyone who thinks the manager should get the sack is a complete bellend!

In his first ever season with us in his first ever season in this league, being the youngest manager ever too, with the worst injury list of any team in the football league and to really key players, some people think that because we aren't gonna get a top six or seven finish he should go, it's madness. Yesterday, he had no van hecke, no igor, no Webster (you know, that brilliant defender that the same dickheads wanted to get rid!) no Pedro (who is either an idiot or he got himself deliberately sent off cos he's been tapped up or he wants to go) and yet we were fully in the game yesterday despite running on fumes with the squad and who had the idea to switch minteh to left wing, and mitoma centre that got us the equaliser and back into the game, several times this season we've been behind and he's changed things for us to go on and win the game, yes he's not perfect and plays too high a line at times but to talk about sacking him is idiotic. Until he has a season where the injury list is not ridiculous then you can't judge him especially when he needs time to learn within the job. This idea that players or managers are either brilliant or shit at any given time and if they're shit we've got to get rid is nonsense.

No Van Hecke
No Webster
No Igor
No Kadioglu
No Pedro
No Georginio

& Veltman and Lamptey not fit enough to start.

2 of our most creative attacking players missing. That's like removing Bowen & Kudus from West Ham. & multiple defenders missing who could arguably be first choice. And still won.

 

[Silverhatch]

No Van Hecke
No Webster
No Igor
No Kadioglu
No Pedro
No Georginio

& Veltman and Lamptey not fit enough to start.

2 of our most creative attacking players missing. That's like removing Bowen & Kudus from West Ham. & multiple defenders missing who could arguably be first choice. And still won.

This is our downfall this season. Missing Hinch when he was FLYING also cost us. Hugely frustrating because our best is as good as anyone’s in this f***ing league