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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)
- Thread starter vegster
- Start date
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Hmmm, as usual Ukraine goes for military infrastructure, and Russia goes for civilian targets. That will NEVER change.
GoldstoneVintage
Well-known member
I'm sure Trump doesn't accept that Russia targets civilians. It is expedient for him to believe that Putin is an honorable man with legitimate grievances whose methods are entirely acceptable.
O Brien is such a deep and logical thinker. Excellent (if difficult and worrying) piece from him.
Indeed... it's all 'fake news '.I'm sure Trump doesn't accept that Russia targets civilians. It is expedient for him to believe that Putin is an honorable man with legitimate grievances whose methods are entirely acceptable.
MTSeagulls
Well-known member
- Sep 18, 2019
- 1,078
- Nov 11, 2009
- 12,905
Brilliant article, very lucid explanation and almost certainly correct.
- Jan 25, 2025
- 700
Yes, but there are two separate things here with different timescales. I’ll spell out my thinking:
1) This week’s proposal ties defence procurement with non-EU states to existence of security agreements. A sensible step to prevent further purchase of US arms that are dependent on US willingness to service and maintain.
2) France HAS (past tense) lobbied for an EU/UK defence agreement to be tied to fishing rights agreements. This was in late January (easily verifiable via a quick Google search)
2a) France doesn’t have unilateral power to make that decision on behalf of the entire EU. I doubt that Austria, Italy, Hungary, Czechia, Slovakia, Luxembourg, Slovenia, Bulgaria, Greece, Cyprus, Croatia or Malta are that fussed about North Sea quotas. Poland, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Romania all have far bigger concerns (their sovereignty and territorial integrity currently being threatened and/or directly targeted) than where French trawlers are allowed to go.
The Times quotes you’ve shared do not prove that #2 remains the case in light of TrumPutin ripping up the world order in the 6 weeks since the French position was reported.
If you can provide a link showing that the details of this week’s proposals specifically stipulate that agreement on fishing rights must be part of those defence agreements, or that France is still lobbying for this, I’ll gratefully recant and consider my knowledge expanded. I’ll offer you my thanks for doing so.
I’ve looked and found nothing more recent than the link I shared which indicated France didn’t have that agreement inside the EU even in early Feb.
Here's an extract from Diane Francis...it's actually a quote from Trump in 2020 about the Israel/Palestinian situation.
"...but I support whatever is necessary to get peace, [but] a lasting peace. It can’t go on where every five years you end up in tragedy. There are other alternatives,”
Yes Trump, that's right - so apply the same principle to the Ukraine war.
"...but I support whatever is necessary to get peace, [but] a lasting peace. It can’t go on where every five years you end up in tragedy. There are other alternatives,”
Yes Trump, that's right - so apply the same principle to the Ukraine war.
Huge Blast Rocks Engels Airbase as Ukraine Launches Major Drone Assault - The Moscow Times
Ukrainian drone strikes sparked a fire at a military airfield and wounded at least two people in Russia’s southern Saratov region, local authorities said Thursday. “Due to a fire at the [Engels] airfield, residents of a nearby farming co-op are being evacuated for safety reasons,” Saratov region...
www.themoscowtimes.com
This bit from Russian reporting very likely a lie or debris from crap Russian air defense:Huge Blast Rocks Engels Airbase as Ukraine Launches Major Drone Assault - The Moscow Times
Ukrainian drone strikes sparked a fire at a military airfield and wounded at least two people in Russia’s southern Saratov region, local authorities said Thursday. “Due to a fire at the [Engels] airfield, residents of a nearby farming co-op are being evacuated for safety reasons,” Saratov region...
"Two people were wounded in Engels, while a hospital, two kindergartens, a school and at least 30 homes were damaged, according to Busargin and Russian investigators."
Sirnormangall
Well-known member
- Sep 21, 2017
- 3,443
So Putin is going to be happy with US troops defending the power plants? And if US troops are killed in defending them what will Trump do? And even if the US successfully protects the power plants, he won’t be able to protect the energy distribution network…..and, and, and
- Nov 11, 2009
- 12,905
I don't think the plan is for Trump to militarily defend them.
I think he wants to take ownership of them, in similar way, french companies own some of ours, sell Ukraine electricity from its own reactors and use them as leverage against Ukraine if needed.
Rdodge30
Well-known member
- Dec 30, 2022
- 1,117
The Times quotes say exactly the same as you… that they have in the past tried to link to…
That’s all.
We are in agreement here, I just haven’t really expressed myself well.
The main point is that Starmer has tried to organise an alliance of the willing or whatever and Macron has stood beside him but as always greed (on both sides here- French and English) is the stumbling block.
To be honest they both look … self serving ?
My view is that often in life - being opposed to one side does not mean you are In favour of the other side.
In a world of c****s I would include, Trump, Putin, Zelenskyy, Macron and Starmer for a start.
I can’t think of one of them that wouldn’t sacrifice peace for financial gain or political stature.
You might think I have no time for current world leaders and I have to admit I’m struggling to think of one I do have time for.
- Jan 25, 2025
- 700
It’s about as feasible/ridiculous as Trump Gaza, I don’t think it deserves to be described as a “plan”
Which of the two nations claiming sovereignty over Zaporizhzhia Oblast is he going to negotiate with?
I think we’d all have our suspicions about that, but he discussed it with Zelenskyy. Presumably this indicates he’s respecting Ukraine’s sovereignty over that region.
Huzzah!
That leaves the question of simultaneously convincing Putin to give up Russia’s claim to it while creating a new, never-before-seen amicable relationship between the US and Russia. Or, alternatively, dislodging Russia from Zaporizhzhia by force.
Simples!
- Aug 24, 2020
- 8,440
Zelensky? You mean this bloke, who on the night of the invasion, stayed, and didn't run?
The one whose face you saw, and not his back?
Quite simply, at that moment, he saved his country.
Yes, that's the likely deal. Trump loves leverage, "give Putin all of Kharkiv or we'll turn off the electricity" sort of malarkey.
I agree with two of your c***s. I have all the time in the world for Zelenskiy, and quite a lot for Macron and Starmer.
I have no idea why you'd put all five in the same basket ffs.