[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[raymondo]

You have a strong sense of justice @raymondo. It goes against the grain not to call him out.
All the time Trump does not call him out, more lives are lost. Or maybe they would have been lost anyway.

The tragedy of Sumy is a sign of desperation. Calling him out hasn't stopped him. Putin doesn't listen. He never listens, whether he is called out or not.

Today, Russia is much weaker than when it began the war. Ukraine is stronger. And still very much in the game.

And it now has a resurgent Europe firmly onside, (sans Orban), who have a vested interest in developing the 'steel porcupine'.

Europe will prove to be more reliable and trustworthy than any American government.

Yes.
And it's Trump I wanted called out loudly by leaders for his appalling appeasement of everything Putin does. At least Kellogg called out the Russian strike to a degree.

But maybe I'm wrong, perhaps Zelenskiy and Europe should just ignore everything Trump says and threatens, just work around him, sideline the US.

 

[raymondo]

Discussing the Sumy strike just now with Mrs Raymondo, as she felt able to reference it.

This may well have been said on the thread, but she's convinced a 'local' resident would have called in the strike, knowing that a family celebration was planned in the Square at that time .

Also, whilst understanding how the Ukrainian citizens are desperate for some normal activities, after no doubt frequent nights of air raid sirens, this strike is a deadly reminder that they really can't have gatherings like this. They CAN'T live normally at all - the risks are too high .

 

[raymondo]

Good section by Zelenskyy on this weeks US version, 60 minutes programme.

16 mins long, recorded on Friday as Witless met Putin and Zelenskyy does a good job of softly softly pushing back against Trump and Vance

I've watched it now, excellent interview from Zelenskiy and the program. I think Zelenskiy talked perfectly,- he called out Trump and his administration as much as he could, whilst saying how critical US 's support remains.

 

[Eric the meek]

But maybe I'm wrong, perhaps Zelenskiy and Europe should just ignore everything Trump says and threatens, just work around him, sideline the US.

I think that's exactly what Zelensky and Europe should be doing.

Zelensky and Europe cannot deal with Trump now. The long term security of Ukraine and Europe cannot be dependent on Trump's whim, or which way the wind is blowing, or what stage he is at in fire-fighting the consequences of his latest cock-up, or waiting for him to return from his three-day golf weekends. His unpredictability, volatility and propensity to be swayed by the Russian narrative, are wholly inconsistent with a 'just and lasting peace'.

Far better for Zelensky to work with NATO, and the EU council of 27 members.

 

[raymondo]

A good article from Landsbergis. It may contain many familiar themes, but he's right to keep saying it.

So who’s guaranteeing Europe’s security now?

It looks like Ukrainians are the ones ensuring our survival.

landsbergis.com

 

[raymondo]

Excellent as always. Well worth a read, and the photo at the end shows Witkoff's heartfelt meeting with Putin again

Weekend Update #128: The Third Year: A Test Of Modern War

Also Trump Will Never Betray Putin (Again).

open.substack.com

 

[Eric the meek]

When my wife heard of Trump's description of the Sumy bomb attack being a mistake, she made an interesting point.

She said 'Who told him it was a mistake? How does he know that?'

 

[raymondo]

When my wife heard of Trump's description of the Sumy bomb attack being a mistake, she made an interesting point.

She said 'Who told him it was a mistake? How does he know that?'

It's a good point.
I expect Trump told himself that, or his cronies made up the idea - justifies their staying with their narrative sadly

 

[peterward]

Today in a press conference with El Salvadors leader, Trump again says Ukraine started war??

 

[Triggaaar]

Today in a press conference with El Salvadors leader, Trump again says Ukraine started war??

f*** off and die Trump

 

[raymondo]

Part of Europe's problem, everyone looking for a leader. Please just do it, Herr Merz, supply the Taurus.

 

[raymondo]

 

[The Clamp]

This just enrages me;

Speaking alongside El Salvador president Nayib Bukele, Trump once again took aim at Ukraine’s Volodymyr Zelenskyyinstead, saying:

“The mistake was letting the war happen. If Biden were competent. And if Zelenskyy were competent -- and I don’t know that he is, we had a rough session with this guy over here.”
“You don’t start a war against somebody that’s 20 times your size and then hope that people give you some missiles.”

On Putin, his tone was distinctively different as he argued:

“And you take a look at Putin -- I’m not saying anybody’s an angel, but I will tell you, I went four years, and it wasn’t even a question. He would never -- and I told him don’t do it. You’re not going to do it.”

Ultimately, he concluded that Biden, Zelenskyy and Putin are all at blame for the war:

“And Biden could have stopped it, and Zelenskyy could have stopped it, and Putin should have never started it. Everybody’s to blame.

 

[The Clamp]

I think it’s because Trump has realised he is being mugged off by Putin. Instead of changing tac and stop kissing up to Putin, he’s doubled down on being Putin’s bitch.

Because Trump is a coward and a wimp. And very likely in Putin’s employ.

 

[Mellotron]

Trump is SUCH a pathetic coward isn't he?

The way he always always always shifts blame "I didn't know anything about it." "I didn't start it." "Nothing to do with me."

The exact opposite of leadership.

 

[The Clamp]

My fear is that Russia and the U.S. come to some territory arrangement without consulting Ukraine.

They divvy up Russian occupied Ukraine territory and then the US fights against Ukraine in defence of Russia when Ukraine try to defend their country against having their land stolen.

 

[fly high]

My fear is that Russia and the U.S. come to some territory arrangement without consulting Ukraine.

They divvy up Russian occupied Ukraine territory and then the US fights against Ukraine in defence of Russia when Ukraine try to defend their country against having their land stolen.

I also fear that is exactly what they are planning. Witless has already said Ukrainians living in occupied areas want to be Russian and Trump has also said Russia needs something for all the deaths they have had.

Not sure USA will actually fight Ukraine but certainly try and put obstacles in their way by withdrawing intelligence and Starlink.

 

[aardvark]

My fear is that Russia and the U.S. come to some territory arrangement without consulting Ukraine.

They divvy up Russian occupied Ukraine territory and then the US fights against Ukraine in defence of Russia when Ukraine try to defend their country against having their land stolen.

Without Ukrainian & European support any arrangement will be ignored & the war continues but as you say the US will have to pick sides & who knows with the orange lunatic will do. Would like to think that European leaders have the full measure of Trump by now even if that means sidelining or working around him after all Trump himself states future European security doesn’t involve the US

 

[The Clamp]

Without Ukrainian & European support any arrangement will be ignored & the war continues but as you say the US will have to pick sides & who knows with the orange lunatic will do. Would like to think that European leaders have the full measure of Trump by now even if that means sidelining or working around him after all Trump himself states future European security doesn’t involve the US

Well yes. It will be ignored by Ukraine and most of the rest of the world.

Which won’t stop Russia and the U.S. making life Hell for Ukraine.

 

[The Clamp]

Without Ukrainian & European support any arrangement will be ignored & the war continues but as you say the US will have to pick sides & who knows with the orange lunatic will do. Would like to think that European leaders have the full measure of Trump by now even if that means sidelining or working around him after all Trump himself states future European security doesn’t involve the US

Well yes. It will be ignored by Ukraine and most of the rest of the world.

Which won’t stop Russia and the U.S. making life Hell for ukraine.

And at this point I do see the war as Ukraine Vs Russia and the USA.