[Albion] Fabian Hurzeler: IN or OUT

[Is it PotG?]

Fat Sam on the hotline.....

 

[hart's shirt]

Until we're as bad, or worse, than De Zerbi's second half of the season, then we can worry.

In RDZ's 2nd half (from 2nd January 2024), there were 19 Premier League games, 3 FA Cup games and 2 Europa League games.

Premier League
P19 W4 D6 L9

FA Cup
P3 W2 D0 L1

Europa League
P2 W1 D0 L1

Total
P24 W7 D6 L11

Hurzeler's 2nd half of the season (from 4th January 2025) is currently 14 Premier League games along with 4 FA Cup games.

Premier League
P14 W6 D3 L5

FA Cup
P4 W3 D1 L0 (the Forest game was drawn after both full and extra-time, but this could perhaps be viewed as a defeat since we lost on penalties)

Total
P18 W9 D4 L5

From this data, it's clear that Hurzeler has the better results. Albion could lose all 5 remaining games and this would still be the case.

On the other hand, the most games that RDZ went without a win was 6. Hurzeler is currently on 6 including the Forest Cup game.

Failure to beat West Ham at home next week would extend the winless run to 7 before Newcastle visit a week later.

So there's a case for looking as much at current trajectory and expectation as simple comparison.

Finally, it can be argued that not all games are equally significant. Was Hurzeler's home draw against Leicester better than RDZ's away defeat to Roma?

RDZ's final 5 Premier League games resulted in 1 win, 1 draw and 3 defeats. Let's see what happens with Hurzeler.

 

[Peteinblack]

I've always said. Wait until the end of the season

Not long to wait, then!

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

Could some of the Hurzeler in fans try and explain to me, a Hurzeler out fan, why I should back him other than the nonsense injury excuse and first season guff? I’m talking tactically, on the pitch, what has he done this season that gives you faith defensively and going forward? Cos as a football tactics nerd myself, I don’t see anything.

I was Potter in and a massive fan all the time he was here cos I could see what he was doing on the pitch, we had a clear structure, we were solid, we had a plan and patterns of play that made sense and created chances. I loved De Zerbi at first, from the start you could see what he was doing, it was brilliant. He had to go in the end because he is a bit of a twat and became toxic, but tactically he was brilliant.

Other managers like Iraola I love and did when he was in Spain, because tactically he is brilliant again. Even when Bournemouth struggled at the start, you could see what he was building from pretty much their first game and it didn’t take him long to make his mark on the team at all.

We’re now nearly a full season into Hurzeler and I see nothing to cling onto for the future. The results we have had have generally been due to individual brilliance and if we hadn’t had Baleba this season, I dread to think where we would be. We have actually played well for a very small amount of time this season and not had one complete match other than away to an appalling Southampton. So please, enlighten this doubter about what Hurzeler is building on the pitch that means we should back him because I just a talented squad of players badly coached at the moment.

I’m on the fence and am concerned by FH’s tactical decisions, but will have a go at playing devil’s advocate.

I think he wants to play a system which is geared towards physicality and going man to man with the opposition. He wants the chaos that comes with intensity and pressing. He wants to play direct and win second balls and individual duels. He wants to win the ball back high up the pitch and in counter pressing scenarios.

Evidently this isn’t playing out too well at the moment. In fact, our pressing triggers are actually out of sync and causing us to be caught out of shape too easily, but I think there is at least some element of a philosophy about what FH’s is trying to achieve, even if the tactics and player’s ability/decision making isn’t baking it up.

That said, I don’t think his tactics are clear in the early build-up stages of our play. We have looked at our best this season hitting longer passes, firing into the channels and basically going direct - not when trying to build from the back (which again cost us a goal today) . We are very far removed from the De Zerbi style of precise, structured passing systems and patterns of play, which perhaps makes FH look even more tactically lacking more than he actually is.

I would genuinely love to know what Bloom’s data analysis team make of it all. I suspect we’ll find out in a few weeks time.

 

[jackalbion]

Because I think he deserves longer than a season, especially a season that has been hot by injuries and featured a load of new players to integrate. Because I think that, despite the poor performances, there have been enough positives to give him more time. Because I believe that TB/PB have looked at him and seen something about him and will be willing to give him time and resources to get the club to their target of being a regular top 10 PL club.

You don't get rid of players - especially ones that that young, inexperienced (at this level) and willing to learn - and I think the same rule should be applied to managers. Look at Palace under Glasner, he's been through dodgy periods and now they are having a good spell.

Hope that helps

I think they are fair points, I’m just not seeing the inspiration come from him. Nothing to lose now, but in 5 games we find ourselves without a win, I cannot see any reason to keep him around. He doesn’t inspire at all.

 

[Ike and Tina Burner]

Until we're as bad, or worse, than De Zerbi's second half of the season, then we can worry.

We'll likely finish lower despite spending over £200 million and not having Europe to contend with.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

I think they are fair points, I’m just not seeing the inspiration come from him. Nothing to lose now, but in 5 games we find ourselves without a win, I cannot see any reason to keep him around. He doesn’t inspire at all.

Fair enough. We're all different.

 

[jackalbion]

We'll likely finish lower despite spending over £200 million and not having Europe to contend with.

There’s every chance we don’t win another game and finish on the same points as last year. He’s just not good enough, the strength of our window was the depth we brought in. He has no idea how to use any of that strength in depth. RDZ was afforded a bit of a slack because of injuries and lack of depth. This bloke has depth, and he’s doing nothing with it. I reckon it’s time.

 

[Talby]

I think they are fair points, I’m just not seeing the inspiration come from him. Nothing to lose now, but in 5 games we find ourselves without a win, I cannot see any reason to keep him around. He doesn’t inspire at all.

Someone out.

Nike for five years (a frankly awful decision - check the feet man!)
Can’t take RDZ dissent.
Recruitment might be data driven but FH the patsy, trying to use humans to work to a ‘proven model’
The Terrace is our Jonah on the Premier League seas.

Only a shaman can save us now. Not money.

 

[Simster]

I'm ambivalent. I've long since arrived at the conclusion that our recent managers have all been competent but not earth shattering.

Hurzeler is no different. He's had moments where he's been pretty good (Spurs and Man City at home) and others where he's not really changed the game in our favour where I might have expected him to (Southampton at home).

I find him annoyingly dull at times, but really I think that's better than the antagonising know it all demeanor of RDZ in the long run. He may improve next season and I think he probably needs to. I'm actually a little unsure that he actually will though.

 

[GoingUp]

This is called being reactionary…

I don't react to a single game and scream IN or OUT.

It's my opinion over it's a series of games. I would say that's more evaluating than being reactionary.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The problem now in defense is lack of alternative options.

Dunk is clearly on the wane, but I dont blame FH for playing him when the only other fit option is 'Who ate all the pies' Cashin.

Simmonds was on the bench against Leicester. I'd rather we blooded some youngsters such as him than continue to use older and slower players who aren't up to the job anymore - eg Dunk.

 

[Flounce]

RDZ pissed me off by this stage last season but FH is now looking just plain clueless. RDZ, for all his faults, is in a different league as a motivational manager to the dullard we have now

 

[Mancgull]

Seriously

We have a bad run of results whilst having key players out injured and it seems most want to get rid.

So who do we replace him with ? and do we then get rid of the replacement after a bad run of games ??

Liam Rosenior.
He can motivate players and is very much on the up.

 

[Flounce]

Liam Rosenior.
He can motivate players and is very much on the up.

As of now, I’d take him and his passion in a heartbeat. A week ago I’d have said “too soon”

No chance though as he is in with a decent chance of Champion’s League whilst we are going to end the season with a whimper rather than a bang.

 

[Mancgull]

Could some of the Hurzeler in fans try and explain to me, a Hurzeler out fan, why I should back him other than the nonsense injury excuse and first season guff? I’m talking tactically, on the pitch, what has he done this season that gives you faith defensively and going forward? Cos as a football tactics nerd myself, I don’t see anything.

I was Potter in and a massive fan all the time he was here cos I could see what he was doing on the pitch, we had a clear structure, we were solid, we had a plan and patterns of play that made sense and created chances. I loved De Zerbi at first, from the start you could see what he was doing, it was brilliant. He had to go in the end because he is a bit of a twat and became toxic, but tactically he was brilliant.

Other managers like Iraola I love and did when he was in Spain, because tactically he is brilliant again. Even when Bournemouth struggled at the start, you could see what he was building from pretty much their first game and it didn’t take him long to make his mark on the team at all.

We’re now nearly a full season into Hurzeler and I see nothing to cling onto for the future. The results we have had have generally been due to individual brilliance and if we hadn’t had Baleba this season, I dread to think where we would be. We have actually played well for a very small amount of time this season and not had one complete match other than away to an appalling Southampton. So please, enlighten this doubter about what Hurzeler is building on the pitch that means we should back him because I just a talented squad of players badly coached at the moment.

This is spot on.
From the very first game at Everton where for the first 25 minutes it looked like we had taken a massive step back.
I remember his reaction in that game to the Minteh head injury. It was like a kid panicking.
I said to myself, give him time, but I’ve just not seen any footballing value from his tactics or lack of them. I think he’s well out of his depth and what we’ve seen in the last couple of games is that the players have now completely lost belief in him.

As of now, I’d take him and his passion in a heartbeat. A week ago I’d have said “too soon”

No chance though as he is in with a decent chance of Champion’s League whilst we are going to end the season with a whimper rather than a bang.

And if Strasbourg just miss out then he’ll still have had a great season managing abroad.
I think that if we don’t go for him at the end of this season we’ll have missed our chance.
What I’m now seeing is that the players have lost belief in FH.
We need someone in who can get that belief back and connect with the players which I think FH hasn’t been able to do.

Genuinely though I think we’ll stick with FH as that’s our way and replacing him at the end of the season will be an admission that we got the wrong man in or possibly the right man but before he had enough experience.
It’s just so dull and uninspiring to watch though.

 

[AstroSloth]

nearly all our best ones have been largely injury free.

Missed most of the season: Kadioglu, Lamptey, Veltman, March, Milner

Missed multiple games multiple times: Webster, Dunk, Rutter, Gruda, O'Riley, Welbeck, Minteh, Mitoma, Estupinan, Ayari, Hinshelwood, Pedro, Wieffer

One Injury/Missed the odd game: Van Hecke, Baleba, Verbruggen, Adingra, Steele

So which key player has really been injury free?

 

[ManOfSussex]

Potter celebrating a victory at The Amex next week would be the final straw.

 

[essbee1]

He's turned world-class players into shit. Gt rid now.

 

[Mackenzie]

He's better than Hyppia and we gave Potter loads of time when results were worse than this, so probably in with the hope that he's a bit more PL savvy next term.